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Author Topic: Magery aka spellcaster dwarves and/or healers  (Read 763 times)

Tormy

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Magery aka spellcaster dwarves and/or healers
« on: September 01, 2006, 09:41:00 am »

Toady, do you have any plans to add magic caster dwarves to dwarf fortress mode? It would be endless fun. Example some freeze/fire spells. Freeze enemies or just burn them!    :) In fact maybe there should be a chance that a spell is misfired [depending on the skill of the caster], and it could have some negative effects. [Example a misfired fire spell could cause fire in the fortress].
Also imho healer dwarves could help a lot later on, especially if the game expands. [When we can set military camps outside and attack other civilizations, I just read that things like this will be added]

[ September 01, 2006: Message edited by: Tormy ]

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Doctor Zero

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Re: Magery aka spellcaster dwarves and/or healers
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2006, 09:58:00 am »

Do you ever read the future plans documents at all?


Go here and read through this, please.

[ September 01, 2006: Message edited by: Doctor Zero ]

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Tormy

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Re: Magery aka spellcaster dwarves and/or healers
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2006, 10:10:00 am »

Damn no I didnt, only the next year one.
Ok, now I got my answer, thanks.   :)
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Aquillion

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Re: Magery aka spellcaster dwarves and/or healers
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2006, 10:33:00 am »

To be fair, the magic feature description essentially says that nothing is set in stone yet:
 
quote:
Core15, MAGIC. There are no specific decisions nailed down yet, although we've thought about it a lot. It's probably best to go for a very general system here, as in the first Armok attempt. Then the world generator and entities can decide what they want to use from what's available. Early efforts might be to make dwarven artifacts more interesting and to increase the power and variability of enemy leaders, rather than focusing on traditional spell-casting adventurers.

I wonder, though, maybe we should have a sticky in this forum with the most frequently-mentioned requests?  On the other hand, it doesn't really hurt to have people mentioning them over and over, and gives Toady an idea of what people are thinking about.  Plus they might actually have some good ideas worked into what they're saying, even if it the basic idea has been said before or is already in the plan.

...to actually respond to the suggestion, I'm not sure dedicated 'caster' dwarves would be a good idea.  If there's going to be a 'traditional' magic-using dwarf, I think I'd expect it to be a single noble...  one magically-inclined dwarf per fortress would be more than enough.  And I'd expect him to focus more on negating enemy magic, exorcizing ghosts, and that sort of thing than on freezing blasts or fireballs...  somehow that just seems more 'dwarven.'  Maybe he could do some close-range magical tricks if the fortress is in dire need, but it wouldn't be his main purpose and you wouldn't be able to order him to do it...  it's not his real job; defending your fortress is for grunts.  Turning magic into purely a form of high-powered artillery takes most of the, well, 'magic' out of it...  and if dwarves want to light enemies on fire, I expect they'd just make some form of incendiary device to throw with their catapults instead anyway.

Of course, other dwarves might still make magical artifacts, engrave items with runes, brew magical-seeming potions, and so forth.

Hmm, magic, magic...  your magic-dabbler noble could use magic in the form of complicated, time-consuming rituals.  In order to use a ritual, you'd have to aquire a text for it somehow, or maybe have him research it...  you'd need materials for it, as well as perhaps some dwarves to support him in it (a choir, for instance.)  You could do a yearly ritual to help your fortress resist enemy spells and keep out ghosts or something like that.  Bad things would probably happen if you missed it.

Of course your magic noble would demand things for lots of odd rituals that have little or no real effect, too.  And not doing them would slow or stop his research and make his other spells lose their effectiveness.  In fact, he could demand things for regular rituals that would be necessary to keep the effectivness of his wards up.

[ September 01, 2006: Message edited by: Aquillion ]

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We don't want another cheap fantasy universe, we want a cheap fantasy universe generator. --Toady One

mrshirt

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Re: Magery aka spellcaster dwarves and/or healers
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2006, 02:21:00 pm »

As dwarves, craftsmen should be a major consideration in a magic system.  Stronger armors, that sort of thing.  Fighting dwarves magical abilities would primarily be based on utilizes magical items as well, i would think.
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Tormy

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Re: Magery aka spellcaster dwarves and/or healers
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2006, 04:07:00 pm »

Hm, you know, it would be so awesome to see summoning magic. A summoner dwarf who can cast rituals to summon specific creatures. Of course the ritual can go wrong, and the creature will attack his master immediately.
Not to mention, maybe some summoned monsters could be equipped with armors and weapons. Of course the summoned creature would have an "upkeep"  It should work like food for the dwarves. The summoned creature must eat that special magical stuff [example some special food enchanced with magic] in all seasons to stay alive in the world, where it was summoned into.

Damn I have so many ideas hehe...  :D

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Somagu

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Re: Magery aka spellcaster dwarves and/or healers
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2006, 04:17:00 pm »

If magic were to be implemented, for dwarves, especially, then I would think that it should have an extremely low success rate, with a chance of deformity, I most wizards you see in fiction are old farts who have dedicated their whole lives to magic, and even then, only the evil ones are extremely powerful, usually, at least.

However, these thoughts of mine apply to sorcery, not magical healing, I can't think of much to say about that.

[ September 01, 2006: Message edited by: Somagu ]

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Aquillion

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Re: Magery aka spellcaster dwarves and/or healers
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2006, 04:17:00 pm »

Well, remember, one of the bloats is to let the player play as a wizard.  A lot of these things could wait until chapter III (or IV, or V): Wizard Tower.  No need to let the dwarves have all the fun.
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We don't want another cheap fantasy universe, we want a cheap fantasy universe generator. --Toady One

JT

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Re: Magery aka spellcaster dwarves and/or healers
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2006, 06:10:00 pm »

Besides, if they have too much fun, the Blondes Union starts getting vicious.  And dirty.  Dirty.  Heh heh.
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Tormy

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Re: Magery aka spellcaster dwarves and/or healers
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2006, 02:48:00 am »

quote:
Originally posted by Aquillion:
<STRONG>Well, remember, one of the bloats is to let the player play as a wizard.  A lot of these things could wait until chapter III (or IV, or V): Wizard Tower.  No need to let the dwarves have all the fun.</STRONG>


Hm, in the next chapters we wont be able to play in dwarf fortress mode? I mean those will be "different" games compared to chapter 2: DF?

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Toady One

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Re: Magery aka spellcaster dwarves and/or healers
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2006, 02:58:00 am »

I plan on retaining the old modes, just adding more, or generalizing current modes.

Aq, well, stickies...  poor forum.  Poor old forum.  The new announcement sections handle a bit of it, and the links I put at the top handle a bit of it, but it's not a real sticky.

By the way, I read all these things, but I just haven't had/don't really have time to reply to every question now.  I'm still behind on the bug reports for today...

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Tormy

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Re: Magery aka spellcaster dwarves and/or healers
« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2006, 04:20:00 am »

quote:
Originally posted by Toady One:
<STRONG>I plan on retaining the old modes, just adding more, or generalizing current modes.

Aq, well, stickies...  poor forum.  Poor old forum.  The new announcement sections handle a bit of it, and the links I put at the top handle a bit of it, but it's not a real sticky.

By the way, I read all these things, but I just haven't had/don't really have time to reply to every question now.  I'm still behind on the bug reports for today...</STRONG>



Thank you for the reply Toady. Yes, as I've noticed that the forum is very active, in fact I see more and more posts day by day, it must be hard for you to keep an eye on everything. The word about DF is spreading all over the gaming forums, and no wonder that the game is so popular already, even if its in alpha only. Truly a decent game and thanks for it.    :)

[ September 02, 2006: Message edited by: Tormy ]

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Skyrage

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Re: Magery aka spellcaster dwarves and/or healers
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2006, 02:35:00 am »

'lo peeps, am all new here and only recently started playing this wonderful game!

As for magic...

I definately hope that dwarves will be extremely limited magic-wise. Dwarves should be dwarves and excel in digging and craftsmanship. What I'd want to see in the future is that each race (assuming there will be a fortress/city mode for humans and elves as well) will have their distinct features and also be forced to rely on other settlements and races through trade and such if they want to get something which they aren't capable of getting themselves.

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