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[SirHoneyBadger]

I don't like "skill bleed" so much. Some might be good, but how necessary is it, when we can quickly learn "dabbling" in most skills, simply by rotating our dwarfs?

It's more micromanagement, sure, but if you don't like micro, then why for the love of hells are you playing this game?!

If it were done really well, then ofcourse it'd be ok, but it just seems like it would make trying to figure out who can do what, as opposed to getting them to actually do it, a lot harder on us players then simply assuming that everyone has the *potential* to learn everything, and leaving it at that.

I'm all for more skills, more tools, more and more task specialization, until we reach some infinite sub-sub level where Urist McUrist is a legendary penis-wielding, urine-channeling, snow-engraver; but I'm not convinced that I'd want him to pick up that skill while he's fly-fishing.

[bjlong]

The idea is for the skill bleed over to make sense--for example, a legendary wood cutter should know enough about how to wield an axe to have at least a fairly good skill in axedwarvery. And know enough about wood to do some carpentry. And so on. This would be helpful especially if one of your dwarves with super-important job X dies, and now your fortress suddenly can't function, or if all the carpenters are out partying and you just need a bin before your stock pile gets overrun by trinkets.

Learning how to engrave snow while fly fishing doesn't make sense, as there's no shared skill between them. This entire thread is devoted to restricting skill bleed to those areas where it does make sense, and in a way that jobs in the future don't have to be individually told which skills to bleed into.

[Whiskey Bob]

Civilian skills bleeding over into military ones I don't think is a good idea, for a number of reasons; primarily that chopping down a tree with a woodcutter's axe and fighting a goblin with a battle axe (for example) are highly different.

The bleed-over I imagine would be rational and minor, limited to skills that are similar; someone who has a high blacksmithing skill would also have a bonus to metalcrafting, and someone who has a high bonecarving skill would have a bonus to woodcarving.

Obviously, it'd only be really useful if there were some penalty for using untrained labour.  As it stands, yes, you can just have Urist McPeasant go and produce a perfectly usable sword or suit of plate, but hopefully that will change in the future.

[bjlong]

Actually, fighting with an axe and chopping with an axe follow the same basic pattern when it comes to strikes, with a few more added in fighting. Battle axes and wood axes are usually very similar, too. Civillian skills and martial skills of the era can feed on one another fairly well. It's only relatively recently that they've become so divergent.

I was trying to work out some example point values, but they seem wrong. For example, with 1000 points in wood cutting, that's 500 points in both axe and wood, so 500 points in axedwarfery. That seems too large to me--it seems like it should be more around 250-300.

[Karlito]

Hey guys, remember how the combat skills are being split up this release anyway?  So a wood cutter can have plenty of skill in "axe", but he won't have any "dodging" or "blocking" or any of the other skills that a soldier trained through sparring and combat would know.

[Cheshire Cat]

butchering doesnt need an axe. you can seperate bones by getting into the joints with a sharp knife. though some people use all kinds of random tools, dissecting an entire animal is lengthy and involved.

the system you guys are describing sounds interesting but very involved and complex. right now i can tell easily and at a glance what each of my dwarves is good at. if this is a heirarchy of skills, wouldnt you need a different way of showing it then a list? like craft (bone, wood, stone) cut (wood, stone) butcher (fish, animal) and how detailed do you want to get with tools? bone wood and stone all use chisels and saws and things of different kinds.

or am i not getting this...

also, swimming should have sewn leather floaties greased with animal fat for water tightness FTW.

[bjlong]

I think the idea was that the skills presented to the player would be the same as they are now, most of the time, with just the extra synergy added in. But I could be wrong.

[SirHoneyBadger]

I've butchered a deer with just a hunting knife before, but it wasn't all that easy, and it certainly wasn't as nice a job as could have been done in a well equipped butcher shop.

Making do with what you have is sometimes necessary, but "the right tool for the right job" would be a fine element to add to DF, I think.

[snus-mumrik]

Hi!
Were there any updates on skill synergy?
I really find it much more realistic that each job would depend on several small skills.