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[Keldor]

I was hauling some cut gems I had imported, and noticed one of the dwarves go on break.  He left the green diamond he was carrying in the middle of the floor!  Not only that, but then all the other dwarves proceeded to trample it until someone got around to putting it in the stockpile.  A green diamond!

Dwarves handling valuable items shouldn't just leave them on the ground when they go off to get food, ect.  They should finish their hauling job first.  Imagine what their boss would say if that diamond had gotten damaged due to the neglect!

[Neonivek]

I have a simple objection

What if the location is rather far away to the point where it could kill a dwarf?

[Keldor]

All you would need is a simple formula incorporating distance, weight, and value (and how hungry the dwarf is).  This wouldn't apply to whether they pick up the job (they won't take the job in the first place if they're already thirsty), but to what they do when they're halfway through hauling it and realize that their break time is at hand.  Also, if they have the job, but haven't picked up the object yet, its value counts as 0.

[Kappas]

In my opinion the dwarves should finish all of their tasks before getting food, drink or sleep, unless they're *really* in need. (dehydrated or starving, for example) It is just ridiculous how a mechanician quits his linking task for drink, and after that he has to begin from scratch.

P.S Same for the military dwarves on duty. "I'll have a beer, boys. You can handle those gobos!"

[ May 23, 2008: Message edited by: Kappas ]

[ May 23, 2008: Message edited by: Kappas ]

[Neonivek]

"All you would need is a simple formula incorporating distance, weight, and value (and how hungry the dwarf is). This wouldn't apply to whether they pick up the job (they won't take the job in the first place if they're already thirsty), but to what they do when they're halfway through hauling it and realize that their break time is at hand. Also, if they have the job, but haven't picked up the object yet, its value counts as 0"

Dwarf: "Alright, apperantly the mayor has told me to bring this statue of gold into his room. Now calculating the space time trajectory with the distance in both the X and Z axis from my location, figuring in the entropy rate from hunger and thirst I have come to the conclusion that... Bob should do it"

Bob: "WHAT!?!"

*Bob dies*

Anyhow, Dehydration and Starving are just that... Dehydrated and starving... These are in effect the Dwarf "Dying". Now I don't know about you but I think Id say "I am going on a break NOW!!!" WAY before I ever get to the point where I better stop working or I might die. That and dwarves are just as much creatures of food as they are creatures of crafting.

These are Dwarves not Robots... They are already robotic enough... I don't want them to work through hunger and I don't want to see them doing calculus to see if they can make it to a location.

Note: The overall emotion I am writing this in is... Serious and jokingly. My statements are serious, but I am saying them in a sorta disarming less serious way.

[Kappas]

I'm not sure if I understood you, but dwarves aren't yet dead when dehydrated/starving status appears to their wound screen.

My point however, is that at irl work you probaply can and will work until the lunch break or until you have finished that page of that report even if you're hungry. But if you get seriously hurt in work you may go to hospital immetiately.

So in terms of dwarf fortress: In my opinion a Dwarf SHOULD BE ABLE TO work until the jewel is at stockpile, but he doesn't need to do so, if he gets dehydrated while trying to find path to that inaccessible stockpile.

[Derakon]

This is planned; Toady has a note in his plans, specifically referring to healthcare, that dwarves should not abandon a task as soon as they get a little hungry. I'd imagine it'd extend to most tasks.

[Neonivek]

A tiny bit hungry yes... I agree...

I'd think it would make a lot of sense if they could pass it to another dwarf.

quote: but dwarves aren't yet dead when dehydrated/starving status appears to their wound screen

I said these are "Dying" status... but I don't think I can explain it unless you got it immediately

[BurnedToast]

Ah, dwarves are smarter then you think! They realize that first of all, items will never be damaged or destroyed by being walked on (maybe food is, I don't know, but diamonds certainly are not) and second that no-one in the fort will steal anything (except kobolds but they will steal it from the stockpile too). So if they get hungry, why not just drop it and grab a bite to eat? someone else will see it and put it away later and until then it's not hurting anything by sitting on the floor.

[NikkTheTrick]

quote:Originally posted by Neonivek:
<STRONG>I said these are "Dying" status... but I don't think I can explain it unless you got it immediately</STRONG>

Not necessarially. It takes days for them to die while strving/dehydrated. I'd call dying only the last stages of it. Early stage of starving would be someone very very hungry, but not dying, not injured. etc.

As of now, the situation is plain stupid: a dwarf would go all the way across the map to get that ore to haul, feel a little bit hungry/thirsty/sleepy, drop it, go all the way back, eat/sleep/drink and then proceed with the task. It is even more ridiculous in case of military. Leaving the post unless a soldier is already starving or dehydrated (and at late stages, too - merely stomach hurting from starvation is not bad enough) during a battle should be punishable by death. Civilians might be allowed to bring them foor/drink, but soldiers should stand at their post.

Perhaps, it should be the following:

When thirsty/hungry/sleepy, civilians finish the task they currently have (if hauling is initiated by the time dwarf got thirsty, reach the item, take it, get it to the destination), initiate and complete tasks that are marked as urgent (not implemented, but hopefully will be) at the expense of an unhappy thought unless there is other dwarf who can do that task. Soldiers sparring should eat/drink. Soldiers on duty should stay untill they are starving (with civilians being able to bring them food in which case soldier would eat on spot).

When starving/dehydrated, dwarves should eat/drink. Unless they are soldiers with goblins very near and are not specifically allowed to eat. Of course, they should get an unhappy thought for getting into that condition. Perhaps, introduce the risk of a military dwarf actually abandoning the post and receiving hammerings as a punishment for that.