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[Asmodeous]

Given the current situation.

Ok, here is where I am:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

What I want to do is obsidian-over the magma pipe. Just the top layer, because in my dwarvenly wisdom I have decided that the best place to build my wizard towery thing I want to build is right where the magma pipe is because it already has the backdrop of cliffs there.

Here are the problems:  No real major source of water. My only water sources are ~5 pools that do not evaporate and refill when it rains. The rain happens once every ~1.5 years, give or take half a year. There is no aquifer. There is no brook/river/stream. There is no lake. There is no underground pool/river. I want to be able to put constructions on top of it, so it almost completely rules out floors, unless I were to just floor it over and build the walls way outside the actual magma location.

Some current ideas:

1. Bucket brigade. This is the most dangerous of the thoughts I have come to, as it will take a horrendously long time, and the imps, skeletal imps, and fire man inside the pipe might get a little irritated that I am wetting them a new ceiling. Also, would take forever.

2. Floor it over. Downside of this is that I can't build any friggin' constructions on the floors, which may ruin the whole idea of the Wizard's Tower (which I will be sticking the Philosopher in when he shows up and basically make him live there).

3. Channel out the area over it and hope the rain turns it into an obsidian floor. I have no idea if this even works. Does Rain count as water in this aspect when it connects with the magma? If this will work, it will be the safest method, but also take the absolute longest possible amount of time. I don't really mind it taking forever (I've got time).

4. Abandon the whole thing and start over somewhere that has a replenishable water source. I'd prefer to not do this.

5. Pump out one of the lakes into a channel that goes into the magma pipe's room, and then wait for the lake to refill. This is also fairly safe (save for while I'm building the wall-channel), but this will also take a good long time. So far this is looking (sadly) like the best option.


Suggestions?

[Jacob/Lee]

build channels around the pipe to keep the imps trapped.

bonus:build walls there.

[Asmodeous]

That doesn't fully serve the purpose, though. I basically want to turn that into a flat ground of obsidian, because I intend to build on top of it. It happens to be about the exact circumfrance (after I round out the inside edges) that I wanted my tower to be. It's actually about 3-4 tiles in diameter wider than my goal, which is perfect.

I realize I could build it somewhere else, but what Dwarven Wizard would want to be far away from Magma?

[Shades]

Build walls to hold back the imps and the like.
Use a bucket brigade until the pools are empty.
Dig channels to make said pools larger and lead to the pipe.
Wait for rain to fill the pools (and the channels due to flow).
Pump water onto pipe to complete cap.


You could just do the last three steps mind you

[deoxy]

Actually, as far as the bucket brigade, you'd HAVE to do it from the floor above, anyway, so you could simply channel out one line of squares at a time to drop water from, meaning the imps will never see you.  I'm sure that isn't the clearest explanation, but you can't create obsidian by bucket from the level directly above the magma (I think that a "pit" designation causes the water to be dumped at the lower level, meaning the magma and the water are already on the same level, not that the water falls onto it... something annoying like that).

OK, an attempt at ASCII graphics:

magma z-level:

Code: [Select]

++++++++++
+++~~~~+++
++~~~~~~++
+~~~~~~~~+
+~~~~~~~~+
++~~~~~~++
+++~~~~+++
++++++++++
crap, out of time - I'll try to get back to finish this later, but maybe somebody else can explain it better, anyway.

[Asmodeous]

Is there a way (instead of having to run the pumps via dwarf-power) to tell how much wind you have on a map before you spend all the time building a bunch of windmills and realize they generate crap for power? Or what direction the wind goes? Does the Direction even matter? I've only dealt with watermills for power thus far, and haven't messed with windmills before, but one of the chaps I "alternate universe" maps with (which is an excellent way to MP DF btw) mentioned building windmills at one point and it got me thinking (since dwarves are lazy and dwarven pump operators are even more lazy).

I've now turned this into a "many questions" thread. Go me. SIGH.

And Deoxy: Are you meaning build a wall in a ring around the magma pipe with a ramp to the top and then pit/ponding the empty space next to it?

[Shades]

Is there a way (instead of having to run the pumps via dwarf-power) to tell how much wind you have on a map before you spend all the time building a bunch of windmills and realize they generate crap for power? Or what direction the wind goes? Does the Direction even matter?

Direction doesn't matter but I don't think you can tell before hand. It's only three wood though so not a big hardship

A dwarf powered pump might be easier as you don't need it running all the time anyway (only once it rains)

And Deoxy: Are you meaning build a wall in a ring around the magma pipe with a ramp to the top and then pit/ponding the empty space next to it?

Yes he is.

[Asmodeous]

I might go with the pumping and an elevated aquaduct. I've been slowly increasing the size of a couple of the ponds by 1 x/y ring after each rain to combat water issues anyway. (In case of mass injury draining my well too fast, for instance.).

Thanks, given me some good idears to go by.

[Loyal]

You don't have to build ONLY floors to cap it off. Building walls where you want walls, and floors where you want to walk, will work fine provided you can keep from angering the denizens.

[gtmattz]

If it were me I would excavate a cistern in the mountain beside the pipe that is just large enough to inundate the top of the pipe and slowly fill it via bucket brigade over time and once I had enough water I would pull the level to let the water flow in.  If you make the cistern fairly narrow but tall you shouldn't have evaporation issues, and the pressure will make the inundation phase a little speedier.

[deoxy]

First off, gtmattz idea is pretty good - might take a little longer than some things, but MUCH MUCH less work for the player.

As to the walls and floors idea... eh, you could just build WALLS and then have your tower on top of that.  The only thing that would cause problems with would be magma workshops.

And no, I didn't mean building around it (though you could do that, too) - you said you'd have to channel above it to let it rain, so I was assuming it had a roof above it.  Let me finish what I was talking about:

magma z-level:

Code: [Select]

++++++++++
+++~~~~+++
++~~~~~~++
+~~~~~~~~+
+~~~~~~~~+
++~~~~~~++
+++~~~~+++
++++++++++magma + 1 z-level:

Code: [Select]

0000000000
000++++000
00++++++00
+++++++++0
0++++++++0
00++++++00
000++++000
0000000000
So, basically, you mine out the area directly above the magma, but you don't channel it yet (if this is the surface, that's already done for you).

Then, you channel only the squares farthest from you access point, and drop 1 bucket of water down each one:

magma + 1 z-level:

Code: [Select]

0000000000
000++++000
00++++++00
++++++++.0
0+++++++.0
00++++++00
000++++000
0000000000
Then you do the next one:

magma + 1 z-level:

Code: [Select]

0000000000
000++++000
00+++++.00
+++++++..0
0++++++..0
00+++++.00
000++++000
0000000000
Etc, until it's done.  The advantage here is that the imps or whatever have almost no chance to see you, much less shoot at you, as there is never more than a 1-square wide area to see up, and even then, they shouldn't be able to shoot at you because you'd have cover from the floor due to the number of z-levels between you.... unless they get out of the magma, of course, but if you've got that area walled off, you shouldn't have to worry about that.

It's a lot of micromanagement for the player, but it takes the least in-game time, dwarf labor, and water of any method I can think of.

If you don't mind waiting a few seasons, gtmattz suggestion would certainly be the easiest and simplest, though you might have to build a cistern instead of excavate it if you are near the surface (and deconstructing those takes FOREVER  ).

Edit: if you wanted to leave more of the level above intact than channelling the whole floor, you could punch a few holes and drop water down them until they get all the surrounding squares.  If you do it in an order similar to what I described above, it could be just as effective in terms of protecting your guys (maybe even a bit better), but it would take longer, use more water (as some would end up evaporating) and possibly drop a few stones down the magma pipe (say if the dumped water moved diagonally before all the horizontals had been done).

example, with numbers of which spots to channel in which order:
magma + 1 z-level:

Code: [Select]

0000000000
000++3+000
00++++++00
++7+5+++10
0+++++2++0
00+6++++00
000++4+000
0000000000
Something like that would do it and only punch a few holes.

[Sutremaine]

As to the walls and floors idea... eh, you could just build WALLS and then have your tower on top of that.  The only thing that would cause problems with would be magma workshops.

[rest of post]

Heh, I thought you were going to suggest draining the pipe in order to build walls one level below the pipe's surface, and those walls would provide a constructed surface that could be built on.

[Asmodeous]

I went for a bit of a combination of Shades' and Gtmatt's idea. I haven't instituted it yet (sudden influx of dwarves, have had to scramble to build enough beds/barrels/etc to keep them happy. Seriously got 80 dwarves in the span of 1 year. 25/season. NOT prepared. NOT prepared at all).

However here's a preliminary screenshot of the Aquaduct system I built:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

As you can see (hopefully, I zoomed out a bit so it was more visible) by the gigantic square of blue, I've been continuing my project of widening one of the lakes considerably both for the effort of pumping the water in and to make sure that I have enough water if my well empties out from some major accident - likely involving goblins, berserk dwarves, or nobles.

The Aquaduct will have a pump at the north end, and below it will be another pump pushing water into the tile it will be pulling from, and the red hole at the end of the aquaduct is one of the first tiles of the magma pipe.

In theory (if I have enough water), I should be able to do this in one go. Pump water in and wait, then shut it off when the whole thing is capped over, wait for it to evaporate.

To unmuddy the ground later I can just build a road on it and then rip it up so I have a nice, mud-free obsidian ground to build on, right?


Also there won't be magma workshops in the tower. The "plebs" live inside (directly west of where the tower will be), however I'm hoping to build a pump stack in order to fill a large glass disk at the top (clear glass, of course) with magma (save for a stairwell in the middle with some breathing room so as to not get too warm) and then atop that will be the Philosopher's living areas and whatnot. Won't it suck if the Philosopher doesn't show?

Picture the CN tower, but where the scenic overlook is, instead there will be a glass ball full of magma, with living quarters, some food storage, and a dining room on top. And probably an office.

I know it's something everyone and their mother has done before. . . However it's the first actual "megaproject" I'm planning on actually completing. heh.

It's got enough stuff in it to make it easily doable for a first megaproject, and at the same time it's got enough things going on to go horribly awry™ and cause great amounts of Fun™ if I botch something (which is likely inevitable).

[Asmodeous]

For entertainment value, I should add that all the non-glass parts I intend to make out of Obsidian -- which I can't manufacture easily so have to order from Mountainhome -- and the glass parts (everything in which there is magma in a tile touching) will all (hopefully) be clear glass. I am lazy on that aspect, so I'm ordering buttloads of pearlash, potash, and lye. :|