Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[sunshaker]

Ok so the conversation on another thread about safe vs unsafe materials/reactions got me thinking, what useful unsafe materials or technology is missing from DF that was known historically. I'm not looking for game data, just a note saying hey this is unsafe technology/substance was used but it is missing in DF. I may or may not do a mod for this (I don't really have the time or desire to produce or maintain it). So of course I'll start.

Asbestos - 6 types of fibrous rock that were fire proof and could be made into clothing and refractory materials (forge/smelter/blast furnace bricks and crucibles) (carcinogen)
Arsenical Bronze - Copper + 1+% Arsenic (toxic), comparable to Tin Bronze, but need work hardening (tin bronze is naturally hard), could be made into sheets much easier, hard to get the alloy portions correct (arsenic will oxidize and boil off during smelting, producing toxic fumes and if heated to long revert to copper). Arsenic was much easier to obtain and was found in copper ores.
Orpiment - yellow pigments, medicine in China (toxic)
Realgar - pigment, medicine in China and Roman Empire (toxic)
Mercury - refining of gold and silver, extraction of other difficult ores (toxic)
cinnabar - ore of mercury, source of vermillion pigment, Chinese medicine (toxic)
lead - numerous pigments (paint and cosmetics), pewter (pewter formulas used in game are modern formulas), Roman pipes and building construction (used to secure lrion spikes joining stone blocks)), ceramic glazes, stained glass windows (solder), Glass (type of crystal glass), food preservative (both as a substance added and as a container sealant), sling (and firearm) ammunition, farming (pesticides). (toxic)
pitchblende (uranium dioxide) - Uranium (aka Vaseline) glass (pale yellowish-green glass), ceramic glazes (colors: reduction atmosphere green to black, oxidation yellow to orange). ((mildly) radioactive)
Antimony (stibnite) - cosmetics, plumbing, pewter, alloy metals, ceramic glaze, pottery, glass production (toxic)
cobalt (cobaltite) - pigments (glass, glazes and ceramics), cosmetics, alloy metals. (toxic in medium to high doses, mutagenic and carcinogenic, oddly essential for life/vitamin B12)
narcotics - variety of plants, Tobacco, Poppies (opiates), Coca (cocaine), others.

Existing materials with harmful effects but no new uses.
nickel - alloy metals (toxic/carcinogen/dermatitis)
zinc - alloy metals (essential for life, induced copper deficiency, high dosage neurotoxin)

[Imp]

For me, I'd want any problem to have at least a potential solution.

Maybe it's safest to have each dwarf only smelt a single bar of a dangerous metal period, to limit/have a real chance of completely avoiding long term harmful affects.  Maybe the 'punishment' is temporary and can be (possibly) cured with rest/some form of antidote.  Maybe ventilation and/or safety equipment of some sort matters.

Thing is, for me at least, I don't usually stick hands into fire, least not without a real tempting goal.  For me watching it burn isn't enough.


If a dwarf runs into a cobra and gets bit, I want it to (probably, snakes don't always inject) become poisoned.  But I'd also like to have ways to look for the cobras before one is stepped on, and avoid them/pin their heads down/set mongooses on them/whatever.  For me, answering the challenge is a lot more fun than falling before the dominant scythe, and a problem without an answer means 'go the other way instead'.  So I'd never touch asbestos or whatever if the result of doing so was either unavoidable or not really, really, amazingly worth it.

But most of these defenses would need more than a basic mod could cover, no?  Could you take into account if an area was ventilated, track cumulative exposure, or check what eq is worn or such without needing to actually change code inside the program?

[sunshaker]

No you can't mess with stuff hard coded (ventilation requirements for forts would be cool). Though these processes in real life are unsafe or downright deadly, there is no method in the game (short of adding random chances of boiling cold object production to the reactions) of actually having these processes hurt your dwarves.

The thing is that most of these processes had no alternative at the time (pre 1400 and even now), but as soon as a safer alternative which is economically viable is developed, people switch to it. They knew it was dangerous yet they were still able to find people to do it (think of the "mad haters" caused by mercury poisoning, they knew why it was happening, but it was the only method for making felt hats and there was a huge demand (and huge profits) to be made off it).

As far as it goes smelting is actually a pretty hazardous job before about 1900 (and even then...), mostly the off gassing of containments (most copper ore contains arsenic (toxic) and/or sulfur (which will combine in the damp air or your lungs into H2SO4), iron isn't any better). Modern refining of gold is not something I would call safe (we use cyanide instead of mercury now, though there is hope for borax). Burning coal (most blacksmiths convert their own coal into coke) releases all kinds of toxic and explosive fumes. So it could be argued that your dwarves are already doing unsafe/harmful/deadly activities.

[Lofn]

Perhaps the beards and a constant coating of blood, mud and vomit combine to provide a kind of filter?