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[Zonk]

I have just returned from a 3 days trip in Ferrara,in Northern italy..i also visited Saint Marine...just before the trip started i wrote a file with ideas for the editor and variuous other things...remember i wrote it BEFORE i read your ideas on "The second labour"..

Here's the file:

I think that these editors should have:

Possibility of an INFINITE number of stock species and materials...
infinite stock species = infinite empires..the only obstacle
to infinite species is the size of the world map...

We should have something like a "species/materials list"for each
universe and then then possibility to export/import species and
materials in them.This way we must not change the specis file with
another file if we have a lot of cool species/materials we got from
other players...we could just make a big file with all the cool
races/materials we like!

Possibility of defining the attributes of the "species"materials
like skin,muscle,bone,tissues...So we can create humans
with skin as hard as stone...These attributes should be decided
in the species editor,not im the material editor,because the material
editor is supposed to be for non-species materials.
By the way,you should also be able to import normal materials
in the species editor...so instead of human with skin HARD AS
steel you can have humans with skin MADE OF steel.
Also we could import "motif materials"in the species editor...
just in case you want to take "standard"mammal skin/bone
and modify it for your species...

A list of the things we should be able to decide in the species
editor:

Type:Is the species composed of castes,of sexes or of beings?
Or maybe it is unliving(see below)
Motif:Connected to the motif editor.
Average Attributes:Without limits!We should be able to have
Species with an average Strenght of 500
Average Weight
Average Height
Body Parts
Materials of the body parts:Connected to the Item and Motif Editor
AND INCLUDING BODY.
Growths:by the way the different teeths could cause different
damages...a wolf teeths are surely sharper than a man teeths!
Also the same thing for claws...
Humans don't have real "claws",we call them nails...

Also some things that could be added just for the motif and species
editor:

"Regeneration":What about a sort of "standard regeneration rate".
Just a % number that describes how fast wound heals.Of course
normal humans would have 100%.This does not allow to regenerate
limbs of course...it's only something describing the creature
metabolism...thinking to it...maybe we could replace the
"Regeneration" variable with a "Metabolism"variable...it would
also affect eating and drinking...Trolls would be ***VERY*** hard
to kill,but they would need to EAT A LOT...which is not a very big
problem,since they can eat raw flesh :-)

"Unliving":If we want to create VERY strange stock species,
we could add an "Unliving"flag.This DOES NOT mean undeath!
It's just a flag that we should put to have a "Construct"motif.
It means:

no possibility to get inconscious
no stamina
no wound regeneration
no sleeping
no growths/organs
no bleeding,but this could also be put without this
flag.

This way we would be able to test things like golems

...I mean...I don't think it's too hard to have....
We just have a "Costruct"motif that is set to "Unliving".
Then they have an humanoid(maybe also quadraped?) form and we edit
them normally...
They are "just"without bone,skin,blood,veins,artoas,brain,and other
organs and growths..They also have all mental attributes to 0.
Or maybe instead of blood they have some strange fluid or
molten metal...
Their "flesh"is supposed to be a metallic material.
When they get hit,little chunks of metal could fall on the
ground...
But there is a problem with attributes
They have no mental attributes,and this is right....
Dexterity is as for normal creatures...And Strenght?Well they have no
muscles!Maybe it just depends on the metal or the power of the magic
animating it...And Constitution?They have no "flesh" to speak of...
only a metal body...

I know it's irrealistic to be able to control mindless creatures.
You ALTREADY said it...but it would be funny!
And also a test for using weapon materials for species...
and i think it's easy to add :-)

Also think to this...in the Future/Mental section you can read this:

"Quest: Gain a null attribute (like the scare crow or the tin man
from the Wizard of Oz)"

Well you could also give a null attribute to others...
Think to a golem with a brain!You could play a mage who gives to his
most powerful golem a brain...maybe the brain he got from the dead
body of an ancient hero!
A golem character could have,in VERY short terms,a storyline like
this:
"In the Year 1231 you were forged and enchanted by [put-a-name-here],
a mighty mage.A few years later,he gave you a mind of your own.
Later on,you lost/killed [put-name-of-the-mage-here]

PowerPlaying and cheating:If you want to test having a super-heroic
character...Put Survivor  Mode on,get in the midst of Norway Rats and
get attacked a lot of times,until the rats are tired.Then sleep.
Do this a lot of times.
This way you can get your Guarding skill up to something like 700-800...
After you remove the Survivor Mode and you can go killing Titans
and Behemoth Slaughter Beasts,without too much problems...
Personally i aim for the sense centers,hit BSB in the legs,they
fall to the ground and THEN i behead them!

Also you can save-cheat..but if you copy the save file of a character,
die and use the copy to restore the character to live,there will be
some errors in the game like items that change...
I had 2 long swords...after being killed and using the copy
of the save file...well..one of the long sword had become a
SHORT SWORD and the other..well..it had become...THE TONGUE
OF A NORWAY RAT!

By the way...i know savecheating is bad(and buggy)...but it's funny,
for me...

For Spelguru:You like big posts,like?Hope you liked reading
this.

For Alanor:When will we be able to download your nice space game?My
favorite game is Slaves to Armok but since i can't play Slaves
to Armok 10 hours a day,i think i will play your game also!

[ May 12, 2002: Message edited by: Zonk ]

[Toady One]

For infinite species -- well, you can never really have an infinite number, but you can get close enough -- the ecosystems (more in the future pages on this) are going to have general numbers like "there are 8000 species of beetle in this forest".  Then when you dig around the dirt and find a beetle, the game assigns it some parameters, and saves them, so you can find that type of beetle again.  The ecosystem will also save at that point the population of the beetle...  there might be millions of them in the forest.  That's the reason I'm doing clades and creature grouping now -- the ecosystems need something general to refer to, like "Beetle".

Lists of various game elements would be very handy.  I haven't quite decided on the interface for that...  I mean, stock creature files will be large enough to have a single file for each creature.  Then you can just make a little list of files, and that will be the stock creature list for a given universe.  There should probably also be various randomization options.

The material editor (interface) will be used for all materials.  Creature materials are defined exactly like non-species materials -- it's just that with creatures, these materials get placed in larger objects called tissues, which make up body parts.  HOWEVER, you won't have to go to the material editor to make creature materials -- whenever you need to make a creature material, you'll be able to get to the material editor interface directly.

Creatures with body parts made out of standard materials (like steel) are already fully supported -- there just haven't been such creatures yet.  I guess if somebody makes one with an editor then they'll be in the game

I think all of the setting you mentioned for "unliving" creatures are valid as separate flags for different sorts of creatures, so I'll stick all of them in now.  I guess when we actually start animating critters, they might be handled very differently, especially if they are an actual item.  I'll now I have the "unliving" creatures right if I can make a spherical creature with just the one sphere body part and absolutely no organs of any kind.  Just a big metal ball.  Or a big flesh ball.  And it doesn't die.  It'll probably die several times before I get it right.

As for actual constructs, that might be done different in the end...  hmmmm...  you might start with something like a statue.  The game will need statues, of course.  Statues are important in many ways...  the game I guess could store them roughly the same way that it stores creature bodies, if they are representations of a given creature.  Then animation would not be so hard.  Painting might be done like that too...  like it stores what is being represented in a reasonable way, so that you can have artwork step out of a painting in certain situations.

Hmmm...  for the magical constructs...  instead of a missing attribute, it's more like giving them a soul.  Every creature has a soul list (you can have more than one soul sometimes -- like when you are being possessed).  So can have a mindless construct, or you can give it a soul to make it more effective, but also harder to control maybe.  Like...  lessee...  you could give it a soul from somebody that is dead.  Or you can have somebody drop their old body and possess the construct.   Or you can summon a demon and stick it in the construct...

Save cheating should be fully possible now -- you just have to do it in a certain way.  If you just back up the "sav" file, and try to import it later, the "uni" file will probably be changed, so all of the references will be messed up.  I can never technically add support in the game for that kind of cheating.  However, if you copy BOTH the "uni" file and the "sav" file, it should work just fine.  You should be able to replay save games as often as you like.  You just need both files.

[spelguru]

I am truly sorry but I must begin to dislike you now since I am a full time member of PHEKoFB (People Hating Experimental Killings of Flesh Balls). You have violated paragraph 239 (Do not post statements about future experimental killings of fleshballs) and soon 536 (Doing fatal experiments on fleshballs). And about creature importing exporting, we come to my interuniversal travel thingy again. Open a portal to another universe, snatch a houndred or so creatures of a particular species and bring them back. Then you have a new species. Also in the editors, take to species that resemble each other but yet have a big difference between them, give them but a "mutate" ability and then they can switch betweem the two different species. Like, a normal rat stands in a forest and then a wolf appear (poor rat). Then the rats mutates like the rats in Parasite Eve 1. Then the wolf can kiss his sorry a$$ goodbye!

And I do like long posts.

[Toady One]

I added all of Zonk's different "unliving" flags last night -- the flesh balls are that much closer to their ordeal.  I wonder if the "Feels Pain" flag should be on or off...

Even if you aren't bringing them between universes, I'd have to figure out how to tell one ecosystem that 100 creatures of a species not represented there have been brought in from another ecosystem.  Or in general, if you take a creature far away from its natural location (town, cave, forest, whatever), how does the game deal with it?  I won't be able to handle that for a while.

[Darkond2100]

*Amazonian Dwarf Priestess brings Ancient back from the grave*
I'm going through the oldest posts I can find. I really am tearing(the kind from the eyes) up. What ever did happen to our 3D?

[Cheeetar]

But did you have to post in it?

[Darkond2100]

Like scratching my name on a priceless fossil in a museum. I did that once, with my initials.

[Capntastic]

Trying to make your name in the world by contributing nothing of value.   I see.

[Darkond2100]

Just like George Bush! He only settled the USA into more debt.