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Author Topic: marksdwarves and champs scared by the enemy?!?  (Read 1126 times)

numerobis

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marksdwarves and champs scared by the enemy?!?
« on: January 03, 2010, 11:46:13 pm »

I was under attack.  I had one marksdwarf run out of ammo; the only source of ammo was in the fortress proper, but to get there he'd have to have walked across a bridge in view of the enemy.  I kept getting the message: "Urist McScared, Marksdwarf, cancels Pickup Equipment: Interrupted by Goblin Wrestler."  The goblin was a level below.

Also, I could have sworn that my champions were running for cover repeatedly: they'd head for the station I set for them, then see the enemy, and run back.  Granted, that might actually have been wise: they were bowgoblins.  But dwarves aren't known for wisdom.

Any explanations?  My dwarves were on "soldiers can go outside" and the soldiers were set to chase the enemy.

I didn't think to save while this was happening unfortunately.
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bluephoenix

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Re: marksdwarves and champs scared by the enemy?!?
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2010, 12:14:22 am »

Also, I could have sworn that my champions were running for cover repeatedly: they'd head for the station I set for them, then see the enemy, and run back.  Granted, that might actually have been wise: they were bowgoblins.  But dwarves aren't known for wisdom.

Any explanations?  My dwarves were on "soldiers can go outside" and the soldiers were set to chase the enemy.

I didn't think to save while this was happening unfortunately.

Maybe the dwarfs tried to walk back to the fort to get food/water and then saw the enemy, wanted to attack, then remembered again their hungry walked back, saw the enemy and wanted to attack and so on.
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Innominate

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Re: marksdwarves and champs scared by the enemy?!?
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2010, 06:01:13 am »

I was under attack.  I had one marksdwarf run out of ammo; the only source of ammo was in the fortress proper, but to get there he'd have to have walked across a bridge in view of the enemy.  I kept getting the message: "Urist McScared, Marksdwarf, cancels Pickup Equipment: Interrupted by Goblin Wrestler."  The goblin was a level below.

Also, I could have sworn that my champions were running for cover repeatedly: they'd head for the station I set for them, then see the enemy, and run back.  Granted, that might actually have been wise: they were bowgoblins.  But dwarves aren't known for wisdom.

Any explanations?  My dwarves were on "soldiers can go outside" and the soldiers were set to chase the enemy.

I didn't think to save while this was happening unfortunately.
He ran out of ammo, needed to go and get more but was within scaring range of the enemy. This would make him want to run away if he was a civilian, but because he is military it makes him want to shoot or close to melee. Since he is out of ammo, his only option is to close to melee. If he can't close to melee, it's hard to predict what he will do, but it's likely that he'll just vascillate.
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numerobis

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Re: marksdwarves and champs scared by the enemy?!?
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2010, 08:57:38 am »

Both your explanations would work better if, upon seeing the enemy, my soldiers charged headlong into the throng.  But as you'll note, I said they were *running away*.
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Satarus

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Re: marksdwarves and champs scared by the enemy?!?
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2010, 11:58:27 am »

I've seen that message before.  Whenever any dwarf sees an enemy, they will cancel their current task.  Civilians will then try to flee in a random direction. Soldiers will attack the enemy. 

Pretty much what happens is the dwarf runs out of ammo and generates a "Pickup Equipment" task.  He then notices an enemy which interrupts his current task.  Since he is a soldier he will go attack the enemy as best he can.

You'll see the same kind of message when a wounded soldier is going back to his room to rest, but notices an enemy.  He'll stop his trip to bed to go attack the enemy.  You'll see a message, Urist McSoldier, Soldier cancels Rest: Interrupted by Enemyname.
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You need to make said elf leather into the most amazing work of art.  Embed it with every kind of gem you have, stud it with metals, and sew images into it.  Erect a shrine outside your fort with that in the center.  Let the elves know that you view their very skin as naught more but a medium for your dwarves to work on.

wagawaga

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Re: marksdwarves and champs scared by the enemy?!?
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2010, 12:15:58 pm »

I've seen that message before.  Whenever any dwarf sees an enemy, they will cancel their current task.  Civilians will then try to flee in a random direction. Soldiers will attack the enemy. 

Pretty much what happens is the dwarf runs out of ammo and generates a "Pickup Equipment" task.  He then notices an enemy which interrupts his current task.  Since he is a soldier he will go attack the enemy as best he can.

You'll see the same kind of message when a wounded soldier is going back to his room to rest, but notices an enemy.  He'll stop his trip to bed to go attack the enemy.  You'll see a message, Urist McSoldier, Soldier cancels Rest: Interrupted by Enemyname.

His dwarves are doing the opposite, they are running away.
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Ieb

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Re: marksdwarves and champs scared by the enemy?!?
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2010, 12:27:31 pm »

The times I've seen my champs suddenly cease their slaughter and run around like a bunch of sissies happened immediately after they took a casualty or two.

It's mildly amusing, annoying, and even sad because when running, they only start fighting back after an enemy attacks them. At times, this means after they've been stabbed in the kidney with a spear or something.

At least they eventually get their act together and attack like normal.

I would also imagine that the skill of the enemy affects their fear. Against a bunch of axemen and so on, there rarely happens a case of scaredypants, but if an axe lord chops off the head of the squad leader as the first thing that happens upon contact with enemy, shit goes down.
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darkflagrance

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Re: marksdwarves and champs scared by the enemy?!?
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2010, 02:08:38 pm »

One could avoid this behavior by adding the [NOFEAR] tag to the dwarf creature entry.

But yes, the fear response is indeed a semi-documented phenomenon.
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NecroRebel

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Re: marksdwarves and champs scared by the enemy?!?
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2010, 02:15:45 pm »

I had this problem a while ago. My champion slicers (I'm playing the catsplosion mod) would sometimes attack, but oftentimes would just scatter randomly as if they were not soldiers, then come back towards their station before scattering again at the sight of the enemy. I removed the benign tag from my cats and it solved the problem, and doesn't seem to have caused any, either (though I have noticed my peasants being more aggressive than usual, that also might just be because I rarely actually keep peasants as peasants this long).
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Grendus

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Re: marksdwarves and champs scared by the enemy?!?
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2010, 05:16:03 pm »

I think it may happen when the squad leader dies. Since he's the first one into combat, it's not uncommon that if any dwarf dies, it'll be him, causing the rest of his squad to panic and take more casualties.

The marksdwarf is probably trying to pursue enemies. Since he's set to pursue (you can change this in his squad orders), he's trying to bash them to death with his crossbow. The melee dwarves I'm not so sure about. There's a known bug where dwarves who were in another squad and had a station or patrol route set will retain that in a new squad, so if you recently changed their squad leader they may be stuck on the last station point you gave them. The squad leader may have gone to get a drink or something as well. Dwarves are kind of like absentminded berserkers. They'll happily run off to eat, drink, or sleep during a siege, but if they see an enemy they're 101% focused on killing that enemy to the exclusion of everything else, including personal safety (or sanity).

Military dwarves are not cowards, they're stupidly courageous, lemming like even. 93% of dwarf stupidity is caused by players who are either unused to lack the patience to handle their... quirkieness.
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numerobis

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Re: marksdwarves and champs scared by the enemy?!?
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2010, 07:30:41 pm »

This happened before any dwarven casualties.  The dogs, however, were, getting shot down like dogs.  Would that be enough?
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Satarus

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Re: marksdwarves and champs scared by the enemy?!?
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2010, 10:58:39 am »

I've seen that message before.  Whenever any dwarf sees an enemy, they will cancel their current task.  Civilians will then try to flee in a random direction. Soldiers will attack the enemy. 

Pretty much what happens is the dwarf runs out of ammo and generates a "Pickup Equipment" task.  He then notices an enemy which interrupts his current task.  Since he is a soldier he will go attack the enemy as best he can.

You'll see the same kind of message when a wounded soldier is going back to his room to rest, but notices an enemy.  He'll stop his trip to bed to go attack the enemy.  You'll see a message, Urist McSoldier, Soldier cancels Rest: Interrupted by Enemyname.

His dwarves are doing the opposite, they are running away.
I figured that was just a pathing thing.  He's trying to go attack the enemy, looses sight and then goes back to pickup equipment.  The only time I've ever seen a dwarf soldier run away was when his target was too far away from his station.
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You need to make said elf leather into the most amazing work of art.  Embed it with every kind of gem you have, stud it with metals, and sew images into it.  Erect a shrine outside your fort with that in the center.  Let the elves know that you view their very skin as naught more but a medium for your dwarves to work on.

Hyndis

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Re: marksdwarves and champs scared by the enemy?!?
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2010, 11:17:46 am »

It depends on the bravery of the soldier.

Recruits are more likely to flee than champions if you take losses, but if you take enough losses even champions will flee.
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smjjames

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Re: marksdwarves and champs scared by the enemy?!?
« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2010, 11:55:51 am »

Have you guys even considered that maybe the squad was set to stay near station? They will stop pursuing enemies after a certain distance and return to station.
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numerobis

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Re: marksdwarves and champs scared by the enemy?!?
« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2010, 07:14:57 pm »

They were set to pursue, and when their pathology eventually got fixed by some fluke, they pursued with a vengeance (*that* is when one of the soldiers got pincushioned).  One thing I didn't make clear is that my soldiers hadn't reached their station, and were hiding well behind it, whereas the goblins were beyond of the station.

The concept of losing sight of the enemy makes sense for the marksdwarf; I like the theory.  It doesn't work for the melee soldiers shirking from their station though.

In any case, I have a better bug to be bothered with now -- all the military issues will change in the next release (assuming the swine hasn't felled the toad).
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