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[TSB]

Expansion of artifacts is going to be inevitable. I was reading Neonivek's topic and I thought he had a lot of good ideas. It just struck me as odd that the dwarven attitude of "This will be a great monu...Oh shit where did that magma come from..." is inherently absent from the artifact descriptions.

What I propose is one of two methods.

The first and the more in-line of what currently happens during a DF game is the RNG roulette that consists of a good portion of the game outside of player direct control is an artifact generation that adds X-qualities, derived from X-attributes.

Ex. - A glove that has an X(1/2/7..etc)  random increases/decreases in skills with no preference on either. You could get an awesome grower from such a glove, or a horrible craftsman who produced dwarf penis sculptures from cat leather.

The second method would be an even +/- system where every artifact would have a contribution, as well as a detriment.

Ex. - A glove that increased the strength of the user but reduced the agility. Or a boot that allows walking on a 1/2 of 7 depth of magma but disolve on grass or what have you.

My preference would be to the second method. It seems like for every plus you should have a random negative. It will ultimately contribute to the FUN! of DF games.

 Just my opinion. As always, please add your comments/suggestions!

Thanks.

[Neonivek]

For the most part I was seperating the effects of artifacts so unless the detriment was inherant to the power, as are any of the transformation artifacts, it was only going to include one effect.

Anyhow yes powerful artifacts could have detriments/costs to using them. Though due to their rare nature and the fact that you have no control over which artifact you get, it would be a good idea to make sure that an artifact's downside isn't on equal terms with its benefit.

Detriments should force players to use the artifact strategically, be penalised in specific situations. The player also shouldn't be able to simply ignore these effects to a certain extent. A Ring that grants immunity to the desert heat but makes snow poisonous could simply be taken off.

Anyhow

Double Effects
-Flaming Sword of Realism: This sword is adorned with Saphire that harness the sphere of fire. The sword is continuously aflame and can strike down foes with a blazing infurno, but it provides the owner no protection from the flames of the sword.
-Ring of Deadly Satience: Engraved on this ring is a picture of a Dwarf refusing food. While wearing the ring the owner doesn't require food or drink and cannot die or take penelties from extreme thirst or hunger, they however must resist all temptation to eat or drink because they are deadly alergic to all forms of such.
-Insideously Perfect Shield: This is the greatest shield forged in the year of Onyx. This shield will always deflect any blow dirrected at the weilder but the weilder in turn must deflect any blow dirrectly. Unlike most artifact shields this one provides just as much defense as an ordinary buckler. Effectively the holder of this shield have their arms turn to pulp when against particularly powerful enemies.

[TSB]

@ Neonivek

Please do not feel like I am shitting on your ideas at all. I think they are brilliant.

I just feel like the charm of DF is to suffer both the positive aspects as well as the negatives, and artifacts with only a positive aspect would contribute more to the min/max gamer as opposed to the typical casual gamer or the one that values elephant rampages as much as a platinum ore find.

DF is all about discovery and random mishaps that discourage or make more enjoyable the overall experience.(I.E if a magma pipe is channeled, a user would likely experience magma smelters, and if there was a mishap, MAGMA FLOODING OF THE BEDROOMS!!!)

If one was to only encounter positive artifacts with no detriments, the entire process would become more boring than a system that made it so the artifacts in question would add value, but also detract from other options.

 An example being:

Salt-bangle: The wearer may safely drink salt-water.

Wouldn't the adverse affect be that the user would only attain ~%50 benefit of freshwater sources?

My point is that half of the fun of this game is watching the +/- aspects of the dwarves play into the overall health of the fortress.

If I have a bunch of dwarves readily able to breathe in water flooded hallways, I would expect them to have trouble in regular (non-flooded) halls and whatnot.

[Neonivek]

Ohh no I don't think your attacking my suggestion at all.

I was explaining the reason why most of my artifacts are usually just a possitive. It isn't that I think artifacts should be possitive, it is that I was creating individual effects.

Another limiter of artifact power is knowledge. Sure you have the Salt-Bangle and maybe you know it protects you from a type of injested liquid. So you assume it is poison and guzzle a vial of Snake venom because your thirsty causing you to convulse and die.

Another is that you have no control over what artifact you really get. So sure maybe in one fortress you do have a necklace that allows a single Dwarf to breathe underwater. You likely won't in your next Fortress, afterall you only get around 10 with a full sized fortress and millions of artifact combinations.

Artifacts cannot be too negative, they can have seriously dangerous disadvantages mind you, or else Artifacts would be nothing but tradeoffs. Breathing underwater isn't that much of a distinct advantage outside of poor AI and training Swimming for super powers, sure it saves your life from drowning but outside of that situation it isn't all that useful.
-Though if it also gave flaming creatures the ability to survive underwater that would be rather dangerous.