Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Sizik]

Something happened with my magma pumping system.

Fig 1.


On the right is how it should look. On the left is what happened. Magma somehow flowed up and destroyed the axles powering my pump. The is the second time this happened.

Fig 2.


This is what each step of the pump stair above the last one looks like.

I think this may have something to do with the pipe refilling. Also, the pump is on the z-level above the lowest one.

[XSI]

Yes, this seems to be the pipe refilling, and your pump is just below what the game thinks of as the surface level of the pipe. sometimes that makes a 7/7 tile of magma appear on the top of the pipe, that's how magma pipes refill, and by pure coincidence it chose the part above your pump as the part to refill.

I'm not sure if it works, but you may have some luck placing a grate there, it may stop the game from thinking it's a part of the magma pipe, and grates allow things to be pumped through them as far as I know.

[Gergination]

I'm not versed in it but I would like a definitive answer on how screw pumps can pressurize magma.

Is there a doctor in the room!?

[mission0]

If I remember correctly a pump with pump magma up to the same level as the pump. Also if you have dug down near the bottom of the volcano you may get lava columns being pushed up from the magma pipe.

[Kanddak]

Yes, magma flow tiles on the bottom level produce magma above themselves. I always put iron or nickel floor bars (or a green glass grate) over the hole, but this does not prevent magma from appearing there; it's just to keep the imps out.

But the main mistake you made here was feeding power into the side of a pump working with magma. Learn how to build a proper pump stack to get rid of your separate power shaft: http://dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Pump#Pumping_up_multiple_levels

Now, Gergination, about screw pumps.
First, you should read my hydrodynamics education post for the basic rules of fluids: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=32453.0
It's slightly dated -- there has been some more recent research about how rivers work, and I skip over a couple finer details of how the pathfinding works -- but it will tell you most of what you need to know about water and magma and pressure.
It is also a good chance to show off a doodle I made a while ago and never had occasion to post:

This is slightly simplified. In the situation shown, I would expect the water to move more quickly than the magma, because the water in the top of its cistern would feed the pump under pressure, while the magma pump would be handicapped by having to wait for magma in the bottom of its cistern to diffuse out to the pump intake.

[Quietust]

But the main mistake you made here was feeding power into the side of a pump working with magma.

Actually, he didn't make that mistake - the pumps pictured are all pumping from east to west (the Z-level above is offset), so there would be no way to transfer power vertically between them.

[Gergination]

I was a bit confused as to why that was a mistake as well.

Thanks for the info.  I don't have any concrete plans of how to apply it necessarily but it's always good to know.

[Kanddak]

Actually, he didn't make that mistake - the pumps pictured are all pumping from east to west (the Z-level above is offset).

I'm not talking about designing a system that leaks diagonally from the pump output; I know he didn't do that.
He needs to feed power vertically into that bottom pump in order to keep the axles from being exposed to the magma coming up through the pump intake. He obviously isn't comfortable doing that, or he'd have just built a pump stack rather than an inefficient arrangement with a lot of axles and gears.

Alternate between these two z-levels, as shown before building the pumps or doors:

Code: [Select]

+.+.   +: floor
 +     .: channel
 X     X: stairs

.+.+
  +
 X+
Uses 10 power per level, for the screw pumps, and is completely sealed.

If you're really set on using that staircase arrangement, then do something like this:

Code: [Select]

Dig:
<++>    upper levels
  +++
+++..

   <++  lowest level
     +
   +++. <-magma source
   
Build:

<++>
  +++
+%%=*    =: axle, *: gear

   <++
     #   #: door
   +%%.
Yes, this is magma-safe even though the magma seems to come "through" the axle.
Uses 16 power per level above the lowest (which uses 10), with one tile of axle and a gear assembly.

The OP's design, with a power staircase separate from the pump staircase, uses 27 power for each of the upper levels, and 22 for the lowest, due to the completely ridiculous number of gear assemblies. It's also designed so that magma can burn his axles and break his system.

[Sizik]

Yeah, I didn't think of pumping through the axles, even though I did it previously for a water pump.

He needs to feed power vertically into that bottom pump in order to keep the axles from being exposed to the magma coming up through the pump intake. He obviously isn't comfortable doing that, or he'd have just built a pump stack rather than an inefficient arrangement with a lot of axles and gears.

I'm quite comfortable, having built for this project 20-story magma and water pump towers, but I wanted to see how far I could get with a pump staircase.

After the 8th step, it connects to a pump train, then to a traditional pump tower.

Can you think of a more effecient way to do this?:

[XSI]

It seems those pumps are there to speed up the flow of magma, you can take out roughly half of them without it moving visibly slower. In fact, as long as the thing is running, it could be entirely possible to only keep the first and last pump in that row. More power efficient? Yes, speed efficient? Less, but after some time it won't be noticeable.

[Dorf3000]

It seems those pumps are there to speed up the flow of magma, you can take out roughly half of them without it moving visibly slower. In fact, as long as the thing is running, it could be entirely possible to only keep the first and last pump in that row. More power efficient? Yes, speed efficient? Less, but after some time it won't be noticeable.

Once the channel fills then the output pump will take it just as fast as the input is providing it, and because they are mechanically connected they will both turn on/off at the same time, leaving only 7/7 in the channel.

[Kanddak]

Yeah, the middle pumps aren't really needed, just the ones at the end.
Both the pump train and a simple 1-wide tunnel have the same efficiency for how much magma ends up being needed to fill the tunnel, and the main limit on the speed of your magma system is how fast the magma flows underneath your intake pump, so I would expect the tunnel to work at exactly the same speed as well as being far more power efficient.

[Skorpion]

Pumps pressurise magma to their own level. I once had a system that pumped magma from a holding tank and into another one on the same level, by way of the magma hitting a wall and dropping down. When the tank filled, the magma overtopped the sides.

Problem was solved by eliminating the wall between the tanks after draining.

[Syff]

I'm quite comfortable, having built for this project 20-story magma and water pump towers, but I wanted to see how far I could get with a pump staircase.

If you're really insistent on using a pump staircase, might I suggest having your accompanying axle/gear staircase underneath it, rather than beside it?
You can't pump magma on the lowest z-level, so no matter how far down the pipe your pumping operation is, if you channel underneath the solid section of the pump as you would with a tower, there ought to be space.