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[Sensei]

So, I've had a game idea burbling and simmering for a while now (see bottom). I doubt it would ever see the light of day in my own hands alone, since it's a bit ambitious to start off making games with.

It's a sidescrolling, sometimes platforming (not crazy Mario blocks though) game about being a thief. As someone in a livestream channel so accurately put it, the basic concept is to "Run past the traps, grab the idol, and run out". You will proceed through the environment, and try to accomplish your objective unnoticed. I couldn't decide how much I wanted to mix the stealth/combat/platforming, so I decided you should play as three different characters, a modern cat thief (who is, yes, quite gentlemanly), a cold-war era spy, and a ninja. So you'll fight, evade traps, and try not to set off alarms. It would be a linear game, focused on good GMing, as it were, rather than open-worldedness. But before this gets too long, I'll just say that the below mostly-finished document does a decent job describing it, and I'll answer any questions. Is anyone interested in maybe taking this up?

Spoiler: Design Document (click to show/hide)

THIEF GAME (working title)

The basic objective of each mission is to enter the base, get the treasure/fulfill the objective, and escape (sometimes unseen, sometimes just alive).
This takes place as a 2D sidescrolling platformer/puzzle. The player will have to perform acrobatics, go unseen, and possibly fight.
Think less 'Thief: Dark Project' and more 'Megaman' meets 'Sly Cooper' (not that I ever played Sly Cooper, Megaman or Thief: Dark project)
 
I: Starting a game
1: A save file is chosen
 a: There are three save files

2: The mission room
 a: View the briefing for your next mission. Missions proceed in a linear manner. Each mission is assigned a character
  aa: Missions will be discussed more thoroughly later
 b: Access multiplayer (not guaranteed to be in game) here

3: The Trophy Room
 a: You can view a trophy from each mission here. These are on selectable pedestals.
 b: When each pedestal is selected, you see:
  i: The name of the mission
  ii: The summary of the mission
  iii: Your best time for this mission
 c: Pressing it again will bring you to a copy of the mission room for that mission. If you beat your old time, it will be recorded.
 d: If a mission has a bonus objective, it will be labeled as completed/uncompleted. Bonus objectives are not listed in the briefing room.

4: Multiplayer (optional- might not get in)
 a: Competitive Co-op
  i: Players try to get the treasure before other players
  ii: Can players attack eachother?
 b: Cooperative co-op
  i: One player plays each character, or versions with different colors
  ii: All character types will be needed
  iii: Groups try to get the best time
 c: Competitive
  i: Deathmatch (?)
  ii: Capture the flag
  iii: Competitive escape

II: Graphics and Sound
Graphics should consist of 2D sprites against layered backgrounds. Items, for now, should be PNGs. More here later.
There will be sound effects for all weapons, some movement sound effects, alarm sounds, and a soundtrack for each character (or maybe level).
For now, we might get away with MIDI soundtracks. Use Anvil for this (google it).
As stated in the header, I'm thinking we should do something somewhat stylized- somewhere between Megaman and Fancy Pants Adventures/MSPaint Adventure. Bold, varied-weight lines will mostly cell-shading are my suggestion, but the whole topic is debatable.

III: Winning a mission
1: The player must fulfill the mission objectives
 a: Being unseen when called for (a guard must not reach the alarm)
  i: Alarms have various consequences, such as lost time, a time limit being created, or more enemies appearing, or doors closing
 b: Fulfilling the time limit
 c: Exiting the area with the treasure (for most missions) or after having completed the objective
  i: There may be a getaway sequence after this point
 d: Some missions include bonus objectives

IV: Losing a mission
A mission is lost on the following terms:
1: Time runs out (there will not always be a time limit)
2: Too many alarms are raised (amount varies by mission)
 a: Enemy guards will turn on alarms if they see you
 b: Some alarms may be deactivated by the player if they operate them or go unseen for an amount of time
3: The player has no health and dies
 a: The player starts with five health points
 b: These are lost when the player touches a trap or is subject to an attack
 c: One health point may be regained with a bandage, or other theme-specific healing items
 d: Some things kill you instantly (?)
4: The treasure is lost or destroyed
5: The player kills a guard (some missions only)
6: If the player dies, they go back to a checkpoint and lose a life.
 a: The player only has three lives, after that the game is over
 b: The timer is not turned back when the player dies
7: Some enemies can handcuff you while you are stunned, causing you to lose
 a: I think the player should get a shot to evade this somehow, though I'm not sure how exactly that would be

V: Characters
1: Cat Burglar (AKA gentleman thief)
This dashing rogue relies on his acrobatics. He is a gentleman thief, and not a murderer. He is in various contemporary regions.
 a: His missions usually don't give him killing weapons, and they do he's usually not allowed to kill
 b: He has a lockpick that lets him pick locks. This takes an amount of time.
 c: He wears civilian clothing and can move unseen in crowds
2: Spy
This character often uses disguises. He's not afraid to kill, but he usually has to hide the bodies. His missions take place in the cold war era.
 a: Can disguise himself as any enemy he kills. Sometimes is disguised at the beginning of the mission or can pick up a disguise.
  i: Disguise is lost if you are revealed by an Officer or security checkpoint.
3: Ninja
This character is a NINJA! His missions take place in the dark ages, usually oriental. I'm not above some history fibbing.
 a: The ninja starts the level with a Katana and Shurikens
 b: The Ninja may kill as he pleases, more alarm levels in ninja missions usually only result in more enemies
 C: The Ninja is faster (?)

VI: Enemies
1: Actions
 a: The player can disguise themself as an enemy if they're a spy, or move unnoticed in a crowd as the burglar.
 b: Most enemies have two health points, and can be killed.
 c: Enemies will attempt to activate alarms or gongs
2: Types
 a: Grunts (more detail on each specifically to be added, as well as more types- this is a placeholder)
 Civilian
 Guard
 Policeman
 Swat
 Peasant (oriental and eurpoean skins)
 Samurai
 Elite Samurai
 Crusader
 Soldier
 Officer
 Machinegunner
 b: Rivals- These have all the abilities of their corresponding player characters, except when listed. They will try to beat you to the treasure or take it from you, depending on the mission.
 Other Thief
 Other Spy
 Other Ninja

VII: Traps
1: Alarms
Alarm levels are raised when an alarm is tripped. Each level can cause a deduction in time, more enemies, script effects, or you to lose the mission
 a: Alarm lever
  i: Activated by enemies
  ii: Can be turned off by player
  iii: Enemies that hear firearms will activate an alarm
 b: Gong
  i: Activated by enemies
  ii: Calls a samurai group
 c: Lasers
  i: Contacting a laser increases the alarm level and turns off the laser
  ii: Lasers swing over a predictable path or are stationary.
  iii: Sometimes they can be turned off, or start off only to be activated by an alarm.
 d: Cameras
  i: As per lasers, except they don't detect you if you're disguised or in a crowd
  ii: Cameras cover an arc area which is not always obviously defined
 e: Bodies
  i: if a guard finds another guard dead or unconcious, the alarm level will raise
  ii: You can drag bodies (they are a large item) to somewhere they won't be found
2: Harmful Traps
 a: Spikes
  i: These do four damage. In other words... don't fall on them. Not common.
 b: Porticullis
  i: It's a door that closes behind you... or on top of you.
 c: Weapon-related traps might be triggered by lasers. Or something else.
 d: Gas
  i: This does one damage every five seconds or so.
Always room for more here...

IIX: Inventory management
1: The player has three inventory slots- one big slot, and two small slots.
 a: The big slot is where most weapons or treasures go
 b: The small slots can carry things such as keys and tools, although a couple weapons use a small slot
 c: You cannot carry a small item in the big slot, because we live in zork land
 d: Guards can see what you have in the big slot, but not the small slots
2: Controls:
 a: The slots are connected to the 1, 2, and 3 buttons (may be changed. Pressing one of these while given the
option to pick something up will put it in that slot, dropping what was there already. Otherwise you will use it
if applicable.
 b: Using an object takes priority over picking it, so you don't pick up a toothbrush when you try to stab someone. Pressing CTRL makes picking something up take priority.
3: Some items are 'free' items- like the paper with your mission objectives or your C4 detonator.

IX: Weapons
note: Each will have a reach value, in units yet undetermined. Uses big slot unless said otherwise. Unlimited ammo unless said otherwise. Stats very subject to change.
1: Knife
 a: This weapon deals one damage
 b: unlike most weapons, it takes up a small slot
2: Sword
 a: This weapon deals two damage.
 b: It has a reach a lot longer than the knife. It slashes a wide arc.
 C: It's not as fast as the knife
 d: Comes in broadsword and katana skins
3: Pistol
 a: This weapon deals two damage.
 b: It has a middling range.
 c: Like most firearms, it makes noise. This could cause a guard to raise the alarm level (or just do it automatically)
 d: It takes about .3 seconds to be ready to fire again
4: Snub Pistol
 a: This weapon deals one damage
 b: Its range is not as good as the regular pistol
 c: Refire of .3 seconds
 d: Takes up a small slot
5: Silenced Pistol
 a: Just like the pistol, but it doesn't make noise
6: Shurikens
 a: These deal one damage
 b: They move somewhat slow, and have a refire of .1 seconds
 c: The Ninja starts with these.
7: Garbage (skin varies)
 a: Deals no damage, passing in front of enemies.
 b: Makes a noise causing guards to face it, and maybe inspect it
 c: This is a small item
8: Taser Dart Gun
 a: This weapon deals two damage
 b: This weapon has a fairly short range
 c: Enemies are not killed, but knocked out- they get back up in 30 seconds
 d: Quiet weapon
9: Stun Darts
 a: This weapon deals two damage.
 b: Like the taster gun, but enemies stay down until revived by other enemies
 c: Quiet weapon
10: Shotgun
 a: This weapon fires three bullets at different angles, each of which do one damage
 b: Refire of .7ish seconds
11: Rifle
 a: 3 damage
 b: 1.5 second refire
 c: Very accurate, long range
12: Rocket launcher
 a: Does 3 damage in a splash area
 b: Requires rockets (small item) to fire
 c: Can damage some structures
 d: Very long range (rocket doesn't disappear) but affected by gravity
13: Sub Machine Gun
 a: Does one damage. Once you are hit, you cannot be damaged by it for another .3 seconds
 b: Fires a bullet every .05 seconds
 c: Middling range, innacurate
14: The Secret Weapon
 a: Does two damage every .1 seconds
 b: Spray field of bullets over long range
 c: loud!
 d: Treasure in one of the Spy missions
15: Shield
 a: Small item slot
 b: Blocks up to five damage of weapon (not trap) attacks before breaking, if you are facing the attack (press shield button and point like a gun, covers about 2/3 of your guy)
 c: Comes in medieval (kite shield) and modern (swat shield) skins
16: Armor
 a: free item slot
 b: blocks up to two damage of weapon attacks before breaking (effectively, adding two hitpoints)
17: Fists
 a: These do no damage, but can knock back an enemy for a moment. If they are hit while knocked back, they fall over for 5 seconds
 b: Can hit about every .8 seconds
18: Mace Spray
 a: Makes an enemy blinded and confused (effectively useless) for five seconds
 b: Very short range
 c: One spray lasts .8 seconds, 1 second refire rate

X: Missions (not sure what order these will be in, but I'm just lisiting ideas)
1: Train Heist
This is a Cat Burglar mission. You lose if you kill anyone. You start on top of a small office building in france. A train passes below, and then control passes to the player.
You must then run across the building tops as quickly as possible. If you fall out, you will lose, going back to the last checkpoint. After a while, you should reach an end to the layer of buildings you are jumping on.
The train passes under and you jump onto it (if you miss you will lose). You must then reach a hatch in the back of the train, jumping or ducking to evade passing signs/ bridges.
The inside of the train is two levels with occasional jumping opportunities. There are some guards armed with pistols or mace, they won't follow you from car to car. If an alarm is sounded they change their looking directions much more often.
At the last car before then engine, you automatically detach this car from the rest of the train. The treasure is a Giant Diamond (large treasure item). Outside, you will see your accomplice take a pump
museum
bank
submarine
Bunker (steal the codes)
samurai castle- steal the sword
samurai mansion- assassination
city- assassination (spy)
ancient temple (ninja)
prison break (Cat burglar)
templar sword (ninja)
missile disarm

XI: Engine
1: Movement
 a: You may move with the arrow keys.
  i: Left and right do their thing, up and down grab onto/climb and hang from/drop from ledges, respectively. Down will cause you to crouch if you are not close enough to a ledge.
  ii: Moving while crouching makes you crawl.
 b: Shift sprints
  i: Sprinting is loud
  ii: You move 1.5x normal speed
  iii: Crouching while sprinting will cause your character to slide. If you are on a slick surface, you may go for some distance or even tackle slopes sonic-style, to some degree.
  iv: It takes a short moment to stop sprinting (about .15 seconds)
 c: Space jumps
  i: Jumping while sprinting, and then crouching in the air, will cause you to lunge. Good for dodging things. You may lunge through glass windows and into enemies, knocking them down (loud, of course). Translation: Shift + Space + ↓ = LUNGE
  ii: Jumping makes you grab ladders.
 d: Mouse aims. Mostly for weapons, maybe also for camera control.
  i: Left click attacks, right click blocks if applicable (more uses?)

XNA?
Level editor?

[qwertyuiopas]

I have a bit of an engine that sounds similar to what you want:
http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=44319.0

Unfortunately, it is written in C and openGL, and therefore might not be the best option.

[Outcast Orange]

A pretty good start.
Everybody wishes they could just write descriptions, and draw pictures of game windows,
but you're going to have to get your hands dirty.
People don't usually enjoy making other peoples games, unless they have some sort of incentive.

I like the idea though.
I would probably play as Rigby the gentlemanly thief, as he is closest to my heart.
Nothing like burglarizing the living catlights out of old people.

I would love to see this come to fruition.
Games aren't super hard to make.
There are only like 6 concepts to learn,
and then you have what it takes to make any game.
The little tids of specific information can always be google-searched.

Here is a good way to get started:
- Get a copy of Code::Blocks
- Make a mini-project game using only Cin and Cout. (Any decent tutorial you find will teach this first)

Learn about while loops, if statements, and arrays.
With those 3 tools at your disposal, you can start throwing together a game.
Am I forgetting any? (Ignore switch-case and for loops, you can learn those later)

The jump from a non-graphical program to a graphical one isn't so large.
For example, my game was being programmed in pdcurses at one point in time,
and two hours later it was in full 3D.

If you focus you could have this thing in a finished state a month from now.
Good luck, whatever you choose to do.

[Bricks]

Instead of making the ninja faster, I'd suggest making his running quieter.  That way, you can sprint around and go in for close-up kills.  If you get around to implementing this, be sure to include W/A/S/D controls along with arrow keys.  It's a much easier scheme for those who use the mouse with their right hand.  For melee attacks, a key might make more sense than left-clicking (and it would allow you to, say, butt someone with a gun instead of shooting them).

It's extremely unlikely someone will take it up.  Most game development proceeds because the developer is so personally invested in the game.  If you know any programming at all, you could try to find a good platformer library, which would get most everything gameplay-side out of the way.  If you don't know how to program... I'm so sorry.  Seriously, though, I'd suggest Game Maker.  It's a little cumbersome at times, but it makes for a good introduction to design and programming (you can opt to use code blocks or you can actually script things yourself).

EDIT:  A bit of personal experience - platformers are a bit difficult for a beginner since you have to understand a lot about implementing physics in a game setting, and they take a lot of sprite to not look like squares jumping on squares.  But like I said, platforming engines/libraries are common since games like Mario and Sonic are so iconic.  Stealth is another story.  You have to either cut corners or do some serious thinking about how gameplay will work and how perception works.  I think some people like the passive, wait-for-guard-patrols style stealth gameplay, but I find it extremely annoying and the mark of a poor or lazy developer.  Either way, I've never seen stealth done all that well (probably because I avoid the genre like the plague), and it's something that you would have to completely design by yourself.  Platformer-shooters aren't uncommon, but they also tend to look kind of silly.  Since it sounds like you don't intend platforming to be pixel-perfect, zooming out the display to show more of the level would look nice (and it would make animating much easier).  Then the player could actually shoot over long distances, and they wouldn't have to memorize the levels to keep from barging into a guard's LoS.

[Outcast Orange]

I think if he were to do it, the best inspiration would be the Metal Gear series.
Thief isn't so bad, but it got pretty tedious pretty quickly.

My favorite unconventional stealth system was Morrowind.
It was so fun to run up the stairs and snatch everything out of sight.
Even if you had to sneak up the stairs in order to do it, it still would have been awesome.
Especially with wandering guards in most places where there were valuables.

There is one thing I really really like about that game.
There were so many damned items. You actually develope a familiarity with the game items.
I could identify limeware the second I walked into a room.
Also, the ever elusive "vase" was worth 14 gold.
In the very early game, that was a nice prize to find unguarded.

EDIT: I've always thought that vase was redware. Anyone know for sure?

[Sensei]

No way to tell without an image. I spent a lot of time modding Morrowind, so I might know exactly what model it uses. But after a while, you start to notice some being re-used (not that they don't have a huge library of models).

Anyway, like I said, I can see myself programming a game, but not anything this complex to start out. And yeah, I can figure out a stealth system myself, as well as do art clear enough for placeholder.

So, what's the plausibility of doing this through a program such as XNA, as opposed to just C alone? I don't have much experience with either. And I've worked with Gamemaker before, I thought it was sort of a weak system if you didn't know any coding (which I realize I'd have to learn). And how hard is it to port something to the xbox with XNA? I would imagine not that hard, but when I see some of the extremely simple games that have been done by non-professionals, I wonder how much effort is involved.

[timmeh]

From what I understand, XNA is only for C#, but I haven't looked into it recently, so you can't take my word on it.  That being said, I have a book a friend got me that I have yet to really read through, but from looking at the examples, the only difference between a game written in C# with XNA for the PC, and the same game written in C# with XNA for teh Xbox 360, is that the computer version uses keyboard and mouse input, and the Xbox version uses the game-pad (and maybe rumble).

I may actually have to try C# and XNA once I finish my current project... looking through the book, it looks pretty simple, all things considered...