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[FireSight]

I've turned Ogres into a full fledged civ, and made them 33% bigger! But now I need help testing them out to see if they are too powerful for normal dwarves to fight off in sieges and ambushes. Ogres are restricted to wood and stone weapons, mostly hammers and maces, and they have no metalcrafting skill. They also get a unique ranged weapon called the Throwing Spear.

Entity_default additional code. Added in a weapon option unique to ogres, throwing spears.

Code: [Select]

[ENTITY:BRUTE]
[CREATURE:OGRE]
[TRANSLATION:GOBLIN]
[DIGGER:ITEM_WEAPON_PICK]
[WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_HAMMER_WAR]
[WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SPEAR]
[WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_MACE]
[WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_MAUL]
[WEAPON:ITEM_THROWING_SPEAR]
[ARMOR:ITEM_ARMOR_LEATHER:COMMON]
[ARMOR:ITEM_ARMOR_CLOAK:COMMON]
[ARMOR:ITEM_ARMOR_TUNIC:COMMON]
[HELM:ITEM_HELM_HELM:COMMON]
[HELM:ITEM_HELM_CAP:COMMON]
[HELM:ITEM_HELM_HOOD:COMMON]
[GLOVES:ITEM_GLOVES_GLOVES:UNCOMMON]
[PANTS:ITEM_PANTS_LOINCLOTH:COMMON]
[SHIELD:ITEM_SHIELD_BUCKLER]
[INSTRUMENT:ITEM_INSTRUMENT_DRUM]
[CLOTHING]
[SUBTERRANEAN_CLOTHING]
[CURRENCY:COPPER:1]
[CURRENCY:SILVER:5]
[CURRENCY:GOLD:15]
[SELECT_SYMBOL:WAR:NAME_WAR]
[SUBSELECT_SYMBOL:WAR:VIOLENT]
[SELECT_SYMBOL:BATTLE:NAME_BATTLE]
[SUBSELECT_SYMBOL:BATTLE:VIOLENT]
[SELECT_SYMBOL:SIEGE:NAME_SIEGE]
[SUBSELECT_SYMBOL:SIEGE:VIOLENT]
[SELECT_SYMBOL:ROAD:NAME_ROAD]
[SELECT_SYMBOL:TUNNEL:NAME_TUNNEL]
[SELECT_SYMBOL:BRIDGE:NAME_BRIDGE]
[SELECT_SYMBOL:WALL:NAME_WALL]
[SELECT_SYMBOL:REMAINING:EVIL]
[CULL_SYMBOL:ALL:DOMESTIC]
[CULL_SYMBOL:ALL:FLOWERY]
[CULL_SYMBOL:ALL:HOLY]
[CULL_SYMBOL:ALL:PEACE]
[CULL_SYMBOL:ALL:NEGATOR]
[CULL_SYMBOL:ALL:GOOD]
[WOOD_PREF]
[USE_CAVE_ANIMALS]
[USE_EVIL_ANIMALS]
[USE_EVIL_PLANTS]
[USE_EVIL_WOOD]
[USE_ANIMAL_PRODUCTS]
[USE_MISC_PROCESSED_WOOD_PRODUCTS]
[ABUSE_BODIES]
[SPHERE_ALIGNMENT:WAR:512]
[ART_FACET_MODIFIER:GOOD:0]
[ART_FACET_MODIFIER:EVIL:512]
[FRIENDLY_COLOR:5:0:1]
[DEFAULT_SITE_TYPE:DARK_FORTRESS]
[LIKES_SITE:DARK_FORTRESS]
[TOLERATES_SITE:DARK_FORTRESS]
[CAN_HAVE_MILITARY_SITE_LEADER]
[START_BIOME:MOUNTAIN]
[BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_WETLAND:1]
[BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_DESERT:2]
[BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_FOREST:1]
[BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_OCEAN:1]
[BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_LAKE:1]
[BIOME_SUPPORT:MOUNTAIN:3]
[BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_GRASSLAND:1]
[BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_SAVANNA:1]
[BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_SHRUBLAND:1]
[BIOME_SUPPORT:ANY_RIVER:1]
[PROGRESS_TRIGGER_POPULATION:2]
[PROGRESS_TRIGGER_PRODUCTION:2]
[PROGRESS_TRIGGER_TRADE:2]
[ACTIVE_SEASON:SPRING]
[ACTIVE_SEASON:SUMMER]
[ACTIVE_SEASON:AUTUMN]
[ACTIVE_SEASON:WINTER]
[MAX_STARTING_CIV_NUMBER:40]
[START_GROUP_NUMBER:20]
[MAX_POP_NUMBER:8000]
[MAX_SITE_POP_NUMBER:120]
[RELIGION:ANY_APPROPRIATE_POWER]
[BEAST_HUNTER]
[SIEGER]
[SCOUT]
[PERMITTED_JOB:MINER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:CARPENTER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:WOODCUTTER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:MASON]
[PERMITTED_JOB:ANIMAL_CARETAKER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:ANIMAL_TRAINER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:HUNTER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:TRAPPER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:ANIMAL_DISSECTOR]
[PERMITTED_JOB:ARMORER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:GEM_CUTTER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:GEM_SETTER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:WOODCRAFTER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:STONECRAFTER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:LEATHERWORKER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:BONE_CARVER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:FISHERMAN]
[PERMITTED_JOB:FISH_DISSECTOR]
[PERMITTED_JOB:FISH_CLEANER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:COOK]
[PERMITTED_JOB:BUTCHER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:TANNER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:HERBALIST]
[PERMITTED_JOB:BREWER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:TRADER]
[PERMITTED_JOB:ARCHITECT]
[ETHIC:KILL_ENTITY_MEMBER:PERSONAL_MATTER]
[ETHIC:KILL_NEUTRAL:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:KILL_ENEMY:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:KILL_ANIMAL:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:KILL_PLANT:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:TORTURE_AS_EXAMPLE:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:TORTURE_FOR_INFORMATION:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:TORTURE_FOR_FUN:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:TORTURE_ANIMALS:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:TREASON:PUNISH_CAPITAL]
[ETHIC:OATH_BREAKING:PERSONAL_MATTER]
[ETHIC:LYING:PERSONAL_MATTER]
[ETHIC:VANDALISM:PERSONAL_MATTER]
[ETHIC:TRESPASSING:PERSONAL_MATTER]
[ETHIC:THEFT:PERSONAL_MATTER]
[ETHIC:ASSAULT:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:SLAVERY:PERSONAL_MATTER]
[ETHIC:EAT_SAPIENT_OTHER:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:EAT_SAPIENT_KILL:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:MAKE_TROPHY_SAME_RACE:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:MAKE_TROPHY_SAPIENT:ACCEPTABLE]
[ETHIC:MAKE_TROPHY_ANIMAL:ACCEPTABLE]
Creature_standard replacement code for the existing ogre. Now with possible multiple births!

Code: [Select]

[CREATURE:OGRE]
[NAME:ogre:ogres:ogre]
[TILE:'O'][COLOR:7:0:0]
[MODVALUE:2]
[CAN_CIV]
[EVIL]
[GENPOWER:4]
[SLOW_LEARNER]
[GRASSTRAMPLE:20]
[BONECARN]
[LIKES_FIGHTING]
[BUILDINGDESTROYER:1]
[CANOPENDOORS]
[PREFSTRING:low howls]

[BODY:HUMANOID:2EYES:2EARS:NOSE:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:HUMANOID_JOINTS:THROAT:NECK:SPINE:BRA

IN:5FINGERS:5TOES:MOUTH]
[MAXAGE:50:70]
[ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:GRASP:punch:punches:2:3:BLUDGEON][ATTACKFLAG_WITH]
[ATTACK:SECOND:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:2:GORE][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH]
[CHILD:4][BABY:1]
[DAMBLOCK:3]
[FAT:5]
[SIZE:12]
[EQUIPS]
[NOCTURNAL]
[CRAFTSMAN_NAME:maker:makers]
[FISHERMAN_NAME:catcher:catchas]
[HAMMERMAN_NAME:hammerer:hammerers]
[SPEARMAN_NAME:sticker:stickers]
[MACEMAN_NAME:bullogre:bullogres]
[SPEECH:goblin.txt]
[STANDARD_FLESH]
[HOMEOTHERM:10067]
[LAYERING:50]
[SWIMS_LEARNED][SWIM_SPEED:2500]
[PERSONALITY:ANGER:25:75:100]
[PERSONALITY:IMMODERATION:50:75:100]
[PERSONALITY:EXCITEMENT_SEEKING:0:60:100]
[PERSONALITY:CHEERFULNESS:0:40:90]
item_weapon changes. spear and warhammer now both have [CAN_STONE] and [CAN_WOOD] while mace and maul only have [CAN_WOOD]

Code: [Select]

[OBJECT:ITEM]

[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_WHIP]
[NAME:whip:whips]
[DAMAGE:20:GORE]
[WEIGHT:10]
[SKILL:WHIP]
[TWO_HANDED:3]
[MINIMUM_SIZE:3]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:1]
[STICK_CHANCE:0]

[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_AXE_BATTLE]
[NAME:battle axe:battle axes]
[DAMAGE:110:SLASH]
[WEIGHT:80]
[SKILL:AXE]
[TWO_HANDED:5]
[MINIMUM_SIZE:5]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:4]

[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_HAMMER_WAR]
[NAME:war hammer:war hammers]
[DAMAGE:120:BLUDGEON]
[WEIGHT:40]
[SKILL:HAMMER]
[TWO_HANDED:4]
[MINIMUM_SIZE:4]
[CAN_STONE]
[CAN_WOOD]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:3]

[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SWORD_SHORT]
[NAME:short sword:short swords]
[DAMAGE:100:SLASH]
[WEIGHT:30]
[SKILL:SWORD]
[CRIT_BOOST:1]
[TWO_HANDED:4]
[MINIMUM_SIZE:4]
[CAN_STONE]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:3]

[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SPEAR]
[NAME:spear:spears]
[DAMAGE:100:PIERCE]
[WEIGHT:40]
[SKILL:SPEAR]
[CRIT_BOOST:2]
[TWO_HANDED:5]
[MINIMUM_SIZE:5]
[CAN_WOOD]
[CAN_STONE]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:3]

[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_MACE]
[NAME:mace:maces]
[DAMAGE:120:BLUDGEON]
[WEIGHT:40]
[SKILL:MACE]
[TWO_HANDED:4]
[MINIMUM_SIZE:4]
[CAN_WOOD]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:3]

[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_CROSSBOW]
[NAME:crossbow:crossbows]
[DAMAGE:70:BLUDGEON]
[WEIGHT:40]
[SKILL:HAMMER]
[RANGED:CROSSBOW:BOLT]
[TWO_HANDED:0]
[MINIMUM_SIZE:5]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:3]

[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_PICK]
[NAME:pick:picks]
[DAMAGE:70:PIERCE]
[WEIGHT:50]
[SKILL:MINING]
[CRIT_BOOST:2]
[TWO_HANDED:5]
[MINIMUM_SIZE:5]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:4]

[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_BOW]
[NAME:bow:bows]
[DAMAGE:40:BLUDGEON]
[WEIGHT:30]
[SKILL:SWORD]
[RANGED:BOW:ARROW]
[TWO_HANDED:0]
[MINIMUM_SIZE:5]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:3]

[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_BLOWGUN]
[NAME:blowgun:blowguns]
[DAMAGE:20:BLUDGEON]
[WEIGHT:15]
[SKILL:SWORD]
[RANGED:BLOWGUN:BLOWDART]
[TWO_HANDED:0]
[MINIMUM_SIZE:3]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:2]

[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_PIKE]
[NAME:pike:pikes]
[DAMAGE:120:PIERCE]
[WEIGHT:80]
[SKILL:PIKE]
[CRIT_BOOST:2]
[TWO_HANDED:7]
[MINIMUM_SIZE:7]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:4]

[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_HALBERD]
[NAME:halberd:halberds]
[DAMAGE:140:SLASH]
[WEIGHT:120]
[SKILL:AXE]
[TWO_HANDED:7]
[MINIMUM_SIZE:7]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:5]

[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SWORD_2H]
[NAME:two-handed sword:two-handed swords]
[DAMAGE:140:SLASH]
[WEIGHT:90]
[SKILL:SWORD]
[CRIT_BOOST:1]
[TWO_HANDED:7]
[MINIMUM_SIZE:7]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:5]

[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SWORD_LONG]
[NAME:long sword:long swords]
[DAMAGE:120:SLASH]
[WEIGHT:70]
[SKILL:SWORD]
[CRIT_BOOST:1]
[TWO_HANDED:6]
[MINIMUM_SIZE:6]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:4]

[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_MAUL]
[NAME:maul:mauls]
[DAMAGE:160:BLUDGEON]
[WEIGHT:130]
[SKILL:HAMMER]
[TWO_HANDED:7]
[MINIMUM_SIZE:7]
[CAN_WOOD]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:5]

[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_AXE_GREAT]
[NAME:great axe:great axes]
[DAMAGE:150:SLASH]
[WEIGHT:130]
[SKILL:AXE]
[TWO_HANDED:7]
[MINIMUM_SIZE:7]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:5]

[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_DAGGER_LARGE]
[NAME:dagger:daggers]
[ADJECTIVE:large]
[DAMAGE:70:SLASH]
[WEIGHT:20]
[SKILL:DAGGER]
[CRIT_BOOST:1]
[TWO_HANDED:3]
[MINIMUM_SIZE:3]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:1]

[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SCOURGE]
[NAME:scourge:scourges]
[DAMAGE:30:GORE]
[WEIGHT:30]
[SKILL:WHIP]
[TWO_HANDED:3]
[MINIMUM_SIZE:3]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:2]

[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_FLAIL]
[NAME:flail:flails]
[DAMAGE:130:BLUDGEON]
[WEIGHT:50]
[SKILL:MACE]
[TWO_HANDED:5]
[MINIMUM_SIZE:5]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:4]

[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_MORNINGSTAR]
[NAME:morningstar:morningstars]
[DAMAGE:120:BLUDGEON]
[WEIGHT:50]
[SKILL:MACE]
[TWO_HANDED:4]
[MINIMUM_SIZE:4]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:3]

[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_SCIMITAR]
[NAME:scimitar:scimitars]
[DAMAGE:100:SLASH]
[WEIGHT:30]
[SKILL:SWORD]
[CRIT_BOOST:1]
[TWO_HANDED:4]
[MINIMUM_SIZE:4]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:3]
stone_layer changes, I added [SHARP] to several more stones so they could be used as weapons.

Code: [Select]

matgloss_stone_layer

[OBJECT:MATGLOSS]

[MATGLOSS_STONE:SANDSTONE]
[NAME:sandstone][COLOR:6:7:0][TILE:'#']
[SEDIMENTARY][AQUIFER][SEDIMENTARY_OCEAN_SHALLOW]

[MATGLOSS_STONE:SILTSTONE]
[NAME:siltstone][COLOR:6:7:0][TILE:'%']
[SEDIMENTARY]

[MATGLOSS_STONE:MUDSTONE]
[NAME:mudstone][COLOR:6:7:0][TILE:247]
[SEDIMENTARY]

[MATGLOSS_STONE:SHALE]
[NAME:shale][COLOR:0:7:1][TILE:'.'][SHARP]
[SEDIMENTARY][SEDIMENTARY_OCEAN_SHALLOW]

[MATGLOSS_STONE:CLAYSTONE]
[NAME:claystone][COLOR:0:7:1][TILE:',']
[SEDIMENTARY]

[MATGLOSS_STONE:ROCK_SALT]
[NAME:rock salt][COLOR:7:7:1][TILE:'#']
[SEDIMENTARY]
[SOLID_DENSITY:2100]

[MATGLOSS_STONE:LIMESTONE]
[NAME:limestone][COLOR:7:7:1][TILE:178][REACTION_CLASS:FLUX]
[SEDIMENTARY][SEDIMENTARY_OCEAN_DEEP]
[VALUE:2]

[MATGLOSS_STONE:CONGLOMERATE]
[NAME:conglomerate][COLOR:6:7:0][TILE:236]
[SEDIMENTARY][AQUIFER][SEDIMENTARY_OCEAN_SHALLOW]

[MATGLOSS_STONE:DOLOMITE]
[NAME:dolomite][COLOR:7:7:1][TILE:'`'][REACTION_CLASS:FLUX]
[SEDIMENTARY]
[VALUE:2]

[MATGLOSS_STONE:FLINT]
[NAME:flint][COLOR:0:7:1][TILE:178][SHARP]
[SEDIMENTARY]

[MATGLOSS_STONE:CHERT]
[NAME:chert][COLOR:6:7:0][TILE:'=']
[SEDIMENTARY]

[MATGLOSS_STONE:CHALK]
[NAME:chalk][COLOR:7:7:1][TILE:176][REACTION_CLASS:FLUX]
[SEDIMENTARY]
[VALUE:2]

[MATGLOSS_STONE:GRANITE]
[NAME:granite][COLOR:7:0:0][TILE:178][SHARP]
[IGNEOUS_INTRUSIVE]

[MATGLOSS_STONE:DIORITE]
[NAME:diorite][COLOR:0:7:1][TILE:176]
[IGNEOUS_INTRUSIVE]

[MATGLOSS_STONE:GABBRO]
[NAME:gabbro][COLOR:0:7:1][TILE:177]
[IGNEOUS_INTRUSIVE]

[MATGLOSS_STONE:RHYOLITE]
[NAME:rhyolite][COLOR:0:7:1][TILE:',']
[IGNEOUS_EXTRUSIVE]

[MATGLOSS_STONE:BASALT]
[NAME:basalt][COLOR:0:7:1][TILE:'#']
[IGNEOUS_EXTRUSIVE]

[MATGLOSS_STONE:ANDESITE]
[NAME:andesite][COLOR:0:7:1][TILE:236]
[IGNEOUS_EXTRUSIVE]

[MATGLOSS_STONE:FELSITE]
[NAME:felsite][COLOR:0:7:1][TILE:'.'][SHARP]
[BASIC_COLOR:7:0]
[IGNEOUS_EXTRUSIVE]

[MATGLOSS_STONE:OBSIDIAN]
[NAME:obsidian][COLOR:0:7:1][TILE:177][LAVA][SHARP]
[IGNEOUS_EXTRUSIVE]
[VALUE:3]

[MATGLOSS_STONE:QUARTZITE]
[NAME:quartzite][COLOR:7:7:1][TILE:'-']
[METAMORPHIC]

[MATGLOSS_STONE:SLATE]
[NAME:slate][COLOR:0:7:1][TILE:'%'][SHARP]
[METAMORPHIC]

[MATGLOSS_STONE:PHYLLITE]
[NAME:phyllite][COLOR:0:7:1][TILE:'-']
[BASIC_COLOR:7:0]
[METAMORPHIC]

[MATGLOSS_STONE:SCHIST]
[NAME:schist][COLOR:6:7:0][TILE:'`']
[METAMORPHIC]

[MATGLOSS_STONE:GNEISS]
[NAME:gneiss][COLOR:7:7:1][TILE:'=']
[BASIC_COLOR:7:0]
[METAMORPHIC]

[MATGLOSS_STONE:MARBLE]
[NAME:marble][COLOR:7:7:1][TILE:178][REACTION_CLASS:FLUX][SHARP]
[METAMORPHIC]
[VALUE:2]
Added in a new weapon, a throwing spear. item_weapon file, just add this ontop of anything else in there.

Code: [Select]

[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_THROWING_SPEAR]
[NAME:throwing spear:throwing spears]
[DAMAGE:90:PIERCE]
[WEIGHT:20]
[SKILL:SPEAR]
[RANGED:THROWING SPEAR:THROWING SPEAR]
[CRIT_BOOST:1]
[TWO_HANDED:5]
[MINIMUM_SIZE:5]
[CAN_WOOD]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:3]
And the ammo for it. item_ammo file

Code: [Select]

[ITEM_AMMO:ITEM_AMMO_THROWING_SPEAR]
[NAME:throwing spear:throwing spears]
[CLASS:SPEAR]
[DAMAGE:90:PIERCE]
[CAN_WOOD]


[Enatai]

I don't use Dwarves, but I can tell you why you're probably getting metal weapons, it's because you gave them [MINOR_METAL], so, if my wiki-reading skills are correct, means that their [STONE_PREF] will still work but they'll also be working with copper and stuff like that, cut that token out and you'll probably get simple stoneworking.

[FireSight]

Before I gave them [MINOR_METAL], they were starting with iron weapons and armor, and given their size, that seemed like a bad idea. I wanted them to use only stone, but that wasn't working, so [MINOR_METAL] was my compromise.

[FireSight]

I apparently forgot to post the code for my weapon modifications and stone modifications, to allow the ogres to use stone weaponry along with copper.... editing it into my original post now.

[kilakan]

I put em in and noticed that they fight alot with goblins for space I suggest you add a few more biomes to thier list cause they always seem to fail to the goblins arrows.... and they arn't all the powerfull when they siege maybe you should try upping damblock and birth rate so they have more if anything remove the [MUTIPLE_LITTER_RARE] tag and they should be a little more worthy an opponent in a siege.  The building destroyer tag would also work better if it was upgraded to 2 instead of one. p.s. stone wepons at the moment in DF are just as powerful as steel soooooo copper may be better.... or just remove weapons and up thier punching attacks/ wooden hammers for more of a ogre feel.

[FireSight]

[multiple_litter_rare] removed, changed weapons so that mace and maul are made of wood, spear and warhammer can be made of wood OR stone, changed ogres to [WOOD_PREF] and removed [MINOR_METAL]. Added in a throwing spear weapon unique to ogres.

[FireSight]

Alright, just 8 ogre spearmen and 8 wrestlers completely slaughtered my fort of 28 dwarves, without a single loss to the ogres (worst injury was a mangled ear). So I think I have the ogres a bit overpowered as it is... but then again, I had no dedicated military and no armor at the time, just 3 marksdwarves and a single axedwarf. If anyone else tries for a stronger military and dies, please tell me.

[Neruz]

I'd say Orcs are probably more dangerous than these Ogres; the only thing they have going for them is size.

[Martin]

I don't know how much control we have over this yet, but if Ogres could be set to siege later than orcs (higher fortress value) and were notably tougher (building destroyer tag helps right off), that'd make a nice combo. They need trapavoid to start.

In terms of early threats to a fortress, I think we're in decent shape with the options out there. It's later (serious) threats to a fortress that are lacking. I know Morul isn't exactly your typical champion, but he'd make quick work of a siege of these guys all by himself. Toss a half dozen legendary+5 champions with the kind of weapons/armor that a mature fortress can produce at them and I'd expect them to return unharmed.

So, they don't seem overpowered to me, unless you are looking for a replacement for orc mod. They're slightly larger than orcs, but same damblock, similar damage, but easier to counter with traps. If we assume orc mod is in the mix, then I'd make these guys a good 3-5x tougher than orcs and set to show up later. Early orc sieges are hard, but after 5 years, there's really not much to them - even in the higher numbers.

What would make them really interesting is if they could ambush as gobbos do. A half dozen Ogres showing up unannounced would really change things up.