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Author Topic: Cave adaptation and Outside building?  (Read 2715 times)

LegacyCWAL

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Re: Cave adaptation and Outside building?
« Reply #15 on: April 02, 2009, 08:57:31 am »

1) Light goes through constructed stairs.  In fact, it goes through constructed anything.

2) As far as cave adaptation goes, #1 doesn't matter because Hagadorn is incorrect: cave adaptation goes off inside/outside, not light/dark.
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HIDE THE WOMEN AND DROWN THE CHILDREN, THE BARON HAS ARRIVED.

Chromie

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Re: Cave adaptation and Outside building?
« Reply #16 on: April 02, 2009, 11:31:52 am »

Light goes through human-constructed anything too.

I embarked some dwarves on a human town and intended to put my first beds (until I'd trained up my tallyman to allow me to reclaim all the human stuff) in the unfinished dirt cellar of their temple. Go figure, it's considered Light, Aboveground.
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Psychoceramics

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Re: Cave adaptation and Outside building?
« Reply #17 on: April 02, 2009, 04:40:10 pm »

be careful where you set up outdoor party spots. Once a siege comes your dwarves become pants-on-head retarded and won't touch them, even if they're 20 z-levels below the surface
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NFossil

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Re: Cave adaptation and Outside building?
« Reply #18 on: April 03, 2009, 06:24:49 pm »

windows do nothing except look appealing (just like women amirite). i remember reading that constructed floors don't block light beams, but i've never checked. an easy way to fight cave adaptation is to remove the ceiling of the first level of your fortress below surface and surround it by walls so that enemies can't scare dorfs during their relaxing experience in the vomitorium.

1. (At the joke) ...
2.An easier thing to do would be to construct a central shaft of your fortress and just channel and wall that one out. One that your dwarves have to pass through to get to different parts of the fortress.

My experience for this setup was that the light place counts as outside for the purpose of "can't go outside" orders, even if you build floor over it. So if you order everyone inside, it screws up all activities inside the fort.
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grendel

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Re: Cave adaptation and Outside building?
« Reply #19 on: April 03, 2009, 07:22:27 pm »

If you want to keep your dwarfs outside and safe from invaders, I find that there are three effective options.

build a tower
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
    X is either a meeting area/statue garden/zoo and it it is surrounded by walls to deny hostile archers line of sight (LOS) to your civilian/ off duty dwarfs one thing to be aware of is if you have a steep cliff that rises above you tower nearby (about a screen and a half or so i think by default), than archers may still have LOS to your civilians.

2 city walls.
City walls can make invasions more difficult and secure large outdoor areas from ambush. what you do is build a solid rectangle of wall around your fort or region. The only opening you leave should ideally be the sparring grounds (weapon/ armor racks can be placed outside,as can archery targets) for your military, but at a minimum I recommend that you keep spotter animals to catch thieves and ambushes if you use a city wall. if you want to be cheap, than build a trap corridor as a gateway to the outside world. When your walls need to cover hills, make sure that ambuhers/invaders cannot path to the top of your walls

3. the ditch.
If you lack time/stone than a simple ditch accomplish the same task as a city wall with far less effort. there are some problems that a ditch has that a city wall does not. don't build it too close to the edge or animals and liaisons may have difficulty finding a path to your fort. A ditch also does not impede LOS, so hostile archers may be able to harass your dwarfs with impunity if you have a melee based military.

As a final note, beware that walls, towers and ditches do nothing against flying hostiles. some players  also consider the use of city walls and ditches cheap, but that is a matter of personal preference for you to decide. maybe as the army arc develops, the necessity/ utility of siege engines and sappers will mitigate the benefits of walls, but a good city wall can render almost any army in vanilla df unable to do any real harm to your dwarfs.
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Bodkin

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Re: Cave adaptation and Outside building?
« Reply #20 on: April 05, 2009, 10:42:15 am »

There's still something I don't understand.  Is cave adaptation permanent?  If you relocate a cave-adapted dwarf to, say, Key West, is he doomed to keep covering that island in projectile vomit for the rest of his life?  Or will he gradually readapt to the outdoors?
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I have so far executed three dwarves by means of impalement ... for bringing cats into my fortress.

Mount

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Re: Cave adaptation and Outside building?
« Reply #21 on: April 05, 2009, 10:49:03 am »

Nope, not permanent.  Eventually they stop upchucking as much, but by then they're thin enough to be supermodels.

LegacyCWAL

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Re: Cave adaptation and Outside building?
« Reply #22 on: April 05, 2009, 10:53:37 am »

There's still something I don't understand.  Is cave adaptation permanent?  If you relocate a cave-adapted dwarf to, say, Key West, is he doomed to keep covering that island in projectile vomit for the rest of his life?  Or will he gradually readapt to the outdoors?

It isn't permanent.  It can take a while to burn the cave adaptation out of them, but enough time out in the sunlight will eventually cure them.

I like to use an outdoor meeting hall to keep dwarves out in the sun, thereby preventing/curing cave adaptation.  The only downside is that the oft-suggested "dwarves stay indoors" option for keeping them safe during a siege pretty much doesn't work anymore...but then, it's pretty damned easy to find other ways to keep them safe.
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Hagadorn

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Re: Cave adaptation and Outside building?
« Reply #23 on: April 05, 2009, 11:27:52 am »

...


cave adaption is silly.

Sorry, i honestly thought it went off of Light/Dark...

Not Outside/Inside.

Also... Light does go through constrcuted stuff....

Thats just retarded.
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You see, booze is a parasite. It lives off dwarves and compels them to dig into the ground so as to create massive defences to protect it's self. It really shouldn't be called dwarf fortress, Booze fortress would make much more sense.
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