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[Wolfius]

Now that there's a good chance we'll end up on maps with no water, an alternative bears consideration - not just to play with, but for wounded dwarves and prisoners(I just had 4 bed-bound dwarves die of thirst), as well as making mud for underground farming and whatnot.

Rain collection could be one answer - a largish surface structure that drops a lil water onto a spot below it, not unlike windmills and power transmission now, when ever it rains.

Alternatively, a condensation "farm" for rain starved areas - just a passive thing that condenses water from the air using the temperature changes between night and day, yielding less than rain collection overall, but usable on any map and "always on".

Either of these would allow you to gradually build up a small underground water reservoir over time.

[Dagonus]

I like the rain collection, though I think it could be more than just a single structure like that so much as perhaps building the ground properly so that it doesn't soak in when it rains. Think aqueducts that aren't the stereotypical elevated ones.

As for the 2nd... all I can think of now is moisture farmers and how I would rename any dwarf associated with it to Luke, Owen or Beru. Thanks.

[Wolfius]

quote:Originally posted by Dagonus:
<STRONG>I like the rain collection, though I think it could be more than just a single structure like that so much as perhaps building the ground properly so that it doesn't soak in when it rains. Think aqueducts that aren't the stereotypical elevated ones.

As for the 2nd... all I can think of now is moisture farmers and how I would rename any dwarf associated with it to Luke, Owen or Beru. Thanks.</STRONG>

I'm not too sure what you're saying, but I was thinking the building would, in effect, just be a large angled surface directing rain water into a basin below. Easiest way to handle that would be a building that periodicly produces 1/7 water while it's raining.

The moisture farm bit, however, came from something I heard about desert survival years back, collecting condensation on the underside of a tarp or plastic bag/etc. left out at night, with comething to catch the buildup set below.

[Keiseth]

I like both ideas a lot. However, for most of us, turning Weather on is suicidal at best. My frame rate isn't so great right now (Old computer is, evidently, old) and weather would be another nail in the coffin. Case. Whatever.

Thus I doubly support any sort of water collection that doesn't utilize weather directly. Even buying it off traders.

[Frobozz]

quote:Originally posted by Wolfius:
<STRONG>I'm not too sure what you're saying, but I was thinking the building would, in effect, just be a large angled surface directing rain water into a basin below. Easiest way to handle that would be a building that periodicly produces 1/7 water while it's raining.</STRONG>

Personally I'd rather see falling rain produce temporary puddles of 1/7 water if enough hits a certain spot. That way you could just build something that water collects on and runs down. Although Toady would probably have to expand the different levels of water handled (having each raindrop made a 1/7 spot instantly would cause some problems).

[Wolfius]

quote:Originally posted by Keiseth:
<STRONG>I like both ideas a lot. However, for most of us, turning Weather on is suicidal at best. My frame rate isn't so great right now (Old computer is, evidently, old) and weather would be another nail in the coffin. Case. Whatever.

Thus I doubly support any sort of water collection that doesn't utilize weather directly. Even buying it off traders.</STRONG>

That still leaves the condensation method, however. At this point it would have to be abstracted to 'it just works', so even turning temperature off wouldn't break it.

quote:Originally posted by Frobozz:
<STRONG>
Personally I'd rather see falling rain produce temporary puddles of 1/7 water if enough hits a certain spot. That way you could just build something that water collects on and runs down. Although Toady would probably have to expand the different levels of water handled (having each raindrop made a 1/7 spot instantly would cause some problems).</STRONG>

Sounds like it'd cause alot of lag.

Besides, if you're going to take that aproach, just spontaniously create 1-2/7 water randomly about the map, every so often while it's raining - same effect, but far more straightforward; no having to divide water into tiny fractions, or give each surface tile a "raindrop counter"/etc.

[ November 08, 2007: Message edited by: Wolfius ]

[Dagonus]

Honestly, I have weather on. I play the game at 5fps when I'm lucky. At times, mine even says "FPS:0". It's just a matter of "how" you play the game. If you want to constantly run around and babysit your dwarves and make sure they don't kill themselves then you can't play at 5FPS. If you want to play the game by turning it on, setting up some orders. Setting a few things to repeat and planning your mining then go take care of other things away from the game to return two hours later and see how things have progressed then its perfectly alright at 5FPS. I don't even have an old computer. I'm just forced to play on my laptop since my desktop is thousands of miles away...

As for what I was saying with the channels doing the water: I mean like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Aqueduct   Except instead of pumping water into said aqueduct and moving it to where you want it, you have a series of pools in which rain collects (Like the rain randomly creating 1/7 puddles bit) and theoretically also increasing the volume of the aqueducts themselves and then the whole system acts as a rain catcher and brings the water to the reservoir you've built.

[ November 08, 2007: Message edited by: Dagonus ]

[ November 08, 2007: Message edited by: Dagonus ]

[ November 08, 2007: Message edited by: Dagonus ]

[Wolfius]

Not so different, then.

Problem is that surafce water evaporates, as well as any 1/7 water, so you want to concentrate it underground quickly to minimise loss.

[Surma]

Theres only one problem with this currently, 1/7 water doesn't move. If there were someway to make a slope out of something (think roof of a house) you could collect rainwater that way. After all, gutters were meant for something other than keeping the walls dry.  

[darknight]

Think something like a metal tree. Metal cools off faster than air or stone, so in the evening it would get much cooler than the surrounding air. Humid air passing thru the tree, would leave dew all over it. And by angling all the leaves and branches towards the trunk in the center, you would get a trickle of water coming off the trunk. So maybe 2 or 3 times a night 1/7 water would form at the base of the metal tree. If that tree were "planted" in a short channel that ends in a reservoir, then maybe 2/7 worth of water would drop into that reservoir every night. Thats not much. But if you have several such "trees" around a small reservoir, then the pond would fill up in a matter of days, or weeks at most.

I see something like this happen most nights during the summer, when even under a crystal clear sky, water will start to drip from the gutters on my aluminum patio roof. A treelike structure would allow a lot more moist air to pass thru it, which would result in a lot more water condensing out of the air.

There are even desert insects that use this trick to survive. They climb to the lip of a dune, then raise their bodies into the night air, and tip them so the mouth is at the lowest part. Then as dew forms on their bodies, it moves down to their mouth, so they can drink all they want.

So something like this could be done, even in the real world.

But whether or not dwarves would do it in a fantasy setting, is open for debate. They certainly could do it, if one of them was bright enough to think of it.

[Wolfius]

quote:Originally posted by Surma:
<STRONG>Theres only one problem with this currently, 1/7 water doesn't move. If there were someway to make a slope out of something (think roof of a house) you could collect rainwater that way. After all, gutters were meant for something other than keeping the walls dry.   </STRONG>

1/7 water is 'created' by your collector/condenser, and drops down into a 1-tile-wide hole. Let it build up a little, then open a floodgate, or have a dwarf access point a Z-level or three up.

Tho if it created water to the side rather than under, you could stick two next to each other, and get 2/7 at a time.

[axus]

Muddy pools fill up with rainwater, supposedly, so creating reservoirs is not a far out idea.  The amount of water you get from rain isn't going to be so high, though.

I think we should be able to make water desalination workshops, when the weather is hot and there is saltwater.  We should be able to trade for barrels of water.  Designating rainbarrels to collect rain would be easier than having to set up reservoirs.

[Agreschn]

Two suggestions from another person who has run into a "No freshwater on my coastal map" problem...

1)Desalinization plant - a 3x3 building that is solely used to make water drinkable.  Allow "Water Sources" to appear in murky/salt water.  The dwarf(ves) who were tasked with cleaning the water would haul it in buckets (3 buckets hauled to produce 5 water, for example.  This would account for 'losing' the dirty part of the water).  Maybe have variable output tasks where you could choose from ending up with 5, 10, or 15 water.  Drinkable water would be stored in barrels like booze.  Add a new skill 'Water Purifier' or whatever.

2)Add a "Purify Water" option to the still.  Dwarves still haul water to the still, still need multiple buckets for Water [5].  No need for a new building or skill (Brewer skill would cover this).  Store Water in barrels like above.

I'm new to the game and have no idea what would be involved in the back end for implementing something like this.  But I do know that having dwarves die just because they're too lazy to boil some water to drink is annoying.  

[Angela Christine]

quote:Originally posted by Keiseth:
<STRONG>
Thus I doubly support any sort of water collection that doesn't utilize weather directly. Even buying it off traders.</STRONG>

Which race do you think is most likely to start a bottled water industry?  My money is on the elves, Evian seems right up their alley.  

Since it would arrive in barrels, I'm not sure the dwarfs would be willing or able to share it with the wounded.  If dwarves were able to master the complex skill of moving liquid from a barrel to a bucket, surely they would give the wounded some booze rather than letting them die of thirst?