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[GlyphGryph]

So I've been thinking about how some of the tasks are not exactly... straightforward about what skill governs them. For example: Obsidian Swords. Weapon smithing? Masonry? Wood carving? Who the hell knows! (well, actually, I'm sure a lot of people do, but this is an example here. Bear with me.)

So my suggestion is make it so that some tasks require multiple skills. This means that we could also reduce the total number of skills a bit too!

Doing one of these tasks requires someone with both tasks designated (or the task could be assignable, though the skills involved in the task spread out, like hunting which doesn't actually use a skill called hunting and isn't directly related to it.) The task itself averages combined skill, so a person who is deficient in either field operates at a fairly low level.

Examples:
Steel Sword - Weaponcrafting/Blacksmithing
Wooden Spear - Weaponcrafting/Woodworking
Steel Crossbow - Bowyer/Blacksmithing
Bone Crossbow - Bowyer/Boneworking
Leather Amor - Leathworking/Armorcrafting
Chair/Bin - Construction/Woodworking (task: Carpentry)
Rock Door/Stone Wall - Construction/Stoneworking (task: Masonry)
Obsidian Sword - Weaponcrafting/Stoneworking/Woodworking
etc.

[Silverionmox]

The most versatile approach would be to split any job into tasks, who then can be recombined in jobs any way the player wishes, and given a name.

The advantages: Custom task sets, task synergy (without the need to define it arbitrarily), specialization.
Disadvantage: more complicated jobs, but only for those who want to edit the raws.

For example, obsidian swords. That has 2 aspects: making a sword and working with obsidian as a material. Anyone who knows about swords should be able to do it better, as well as anyone who knows about obsidian. Making an iron sword has more aspects: making a sword, using iron as a material, using a hammer & anvil, using a forge. That has one area of overlap, so the dwarf who only makes iron swords will be better than an unskilled dwarf at making obsidian swords, but not as good as the specialized obsidian sword-maker.

So if you want to have a dwarf specializing in swordmaking, you would make a job profile "Swordcrafter", and allow any dwarf with it to make swords - only swords, but also allow him to use any tool or material. That way, he will only make swords. If you take swords away from the other profiles, only he would make swords and thus gain all the skill in swordsmaking.

[Pilsu]

A weaponsmith wouldn't have a clue how to make a good macuahuitl. Your suggestion doesn't even begin to make sense

I'd prefer if the task was simply split into several if appropriate so one doesn't need to overspecialize. And really, bowyers are useless. We should just relegate crossbows to wood- and bonecrafting

[vitaoma]

I think this is gonna be implemented in the future, otherwise we wouldn't have 267 different metal working skills.

[Silverionmox]

A weaponsmith wouldn't have a clue how to make a good macahuatl. Your suggestion doesn't even begin to make sense

A swordsmith would still know better what a sword has to look like, how broad the hilt should be etc. than an unskilled dwarf. But that just illustrates that an obsidian sword is not quite a sword, but some other kind of weapon. He would know the shape a wooden sword has to get, but he would still suck at woodworking.

I'd prefer if the task was simply split into several if appropriate so one doesn't need to overspecialize. And really, bowyers are useless. We should just relegate crossbows to wood- and bonecrafting

I'm afraid that "if appropriate" will be quite hard to define, not to mention personal taste and strategy differences. You can customize it however you want, once all the tasks are split up and in the raws.

[Capntastic]

For those not in the know, an obsidian sword is a macquahitl, which is basically a club with shards of obsidian worked into it.   Razor sharp and capable of decapitating in one strike.

[PMantix]

This means that we could also reduce the total number of skills a bit too!

HERESY!

Throw him into the pond!

[LrZeph]

For those not in the know, an obsidian sword is a macquahitl, which is basically a club with shards of obsidian worked into it.   Razor sharp and capable of decapitating in one strike.

The More you Know!

[GlyphGryph]

A weaponsmith wouldn't have a clue how to make a good macahuatl. Your suggestion doesn't even begin to make sense

I'd argue a person with skill not in swordsmithing but in weaponcrafting (ie balancing, how force needs to be applied, methods of designing a comfortable hold, and idea of size to weight for the weapon involved) would be able to better able to craft a macahuatl than one who knows nothing about weapons. He understands the principles if not the materials - hence why having knowledge of working with stone(actually, I'd consider obsidian a glass skill but its stone for now) and woodworking also helps, and only having a good understanding of all three would allow a person to craft a macahuatl. Sure, its not exact, its not a perfect simulation, but at least its understandable.

I don't understand how it "wouldn't even begin to make sense". Nor, exactly, how bowyers are useless, since they allow you to make crossbows which are kind of nice to have. Though I admit crossbow quality has a limited in game effect from what I remember, that just means GOOD bowyers are no more useful than bad ones (something I think should be changed anyways, if its true).

[Pilsu]

Weaponcrafters deal with metal. I'm gonna have to question your judgment if you think making long swords out of steel gives you working knowledge with wooden clubs with shards of glass in them

Bowyers are redundant since metal bows are made by weaponsmiths. Certainly, wooden crossbows are useful but I don't see why they couldn't be made with wood and bonecrafting instead. As is, it's just an overspecialized skill few ever bother with, especially considering your weaponsmith is likely to be far more skilled and thus can work some cheap metal into better bows

[Footkerchief]

Weaponcrafters deal with metal. I'm gonna have to question your judgment if you think making long swords out of steel gives you working knowledge with wooden clubs with shards of glass in them

"Weaponcrafters deal with metal" is a pretty big oversimplification, as you know.  Weaponcrafters are distinct from blacksmiths from a reason.  There's a lot more to weapons than what they're made out of -- such as the grip and balance, as noted by Silverion and GlyphGryph, and apparently not seen by you.

Anyway, if DF ever gets Armok I's skill system, all this silliness will be over, and when a crafter makes an ash spear the game will account for his general skill with woodworking plus his specific skill with working ash, his general skill with making weapons plus his specific skill at making spears, etc.

[texmith]

Bowyers are redundant since metal bows are made by weaponsmiths. Certainly, wooden crossbows are useful but I don't see why they couldn't be made with wood and bonecrafting instead. As is, it's just an overspecialized skill few ever bother with, especially considering your weaponsmith is likely to be far more skilled and thus can work some cheap metal into better bows

Yeah, would be nice if the bowyer skill was used for both along with metal/wood working. It strikes me that making crossbows is a quite complicated affair and someone who was good at it could make far superior weapons regardless of the material used.