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[Fossaman]

Lakes take a long time to drain.

Just thought I'd mention that.

Additionally, I'd like to solicit designs for airlocks that can flood and drain using pumps (they must work when completely submerged) and for a sump pump system that can drain an entire fortress that has been flooded: I intend to include one of these from the beginning of fort design, along with a sealable control room that runs it.

What I'm really wanting to do is build the fort, flood it out, and return in adventure mode. The adventurer will swim down to the airlock, cycle it, and try and reach the control room to drain the fortress. I imagine this will involve lots and lots of figuring out how long he can hold his breath.

[Sinergistic]

Lakes take a long time to drain.

Only if you don't plan ahead. Spaced out pumps + a couple pump stacks spread through the lake (with matching aqueducts to move the water away) work like magic.

Sump pump is easy. Build the fort like an inverted pyrmid with a pump stack going up the middle.

[Osmosis Jones]

Or alternatively, build in sewer levels every 2 or 3 z-levels that run to a large cistern, which can then be drained easily.

[Lexender]

Your idea is pretty cool, though it could really be awesome if you built a large fort with many airlocks that will both empty an area and flood another, or flood an area and open a door, or any kind of combination, kind of like the water temples in Zelda. At the end could be an epic artifact weapon and riches. I'd definitely play a puzzle-fort like that.

[Ametsala]

I just tried how long it takes to drown with my über adventurer (the one with 600 kills, impossible to kill, etc). I wen't swimming and when the river ended, moved to swim in the brook. I managed to move about 60 squares before I drowned. I made a movie: http://mkv25.net/dfma/movie-1050

[Fossaman]

This is rather a large lake, though. I think I've got about a 2x3 block of lake on my 4x4 map, with the lake continuing off the map to the south. Like this:

Code: [Select]

XXXX
XLLX
XLLX
XLLX
I'm draining the top four squares of lake, all the way down to the bottom of it, four z-levels down. I also had to completely wall my map so that I could drain the water without it flooding back into the lake. I think I've got something like a hundred and twenty pumps running so far.

However, most of why it's slow? 20 FPS when I drained the first level, 15 when I drained the second. The third level is in progress, and I'm down to 10 FPS. Level four is going to be a beast.

EDIT: Level four = 5 FPS. Fun. I'll be glad when I can get my dam in place and not have to have pumps running all the time.

[Flaede]

EDIT: Level four = 5 FPS. Fun. I'll be glad when I can get my dam in place and not have to have pumps running all the time.

Oh dear. I don't like hearing things like that. I'm about to drain the ocean out of the whole Bloody Bay. (really, that's what it's called. Next to the Bloody Steppes, filled with red sand. What else would I call it?) my computer's gonna hate me.

[Fossaman]

You'll want to watch out for the waves. I tried draining a bay once, and it didn't work because the waves were still producing water where they hit the shoreline. At least, I think that's what was happening. That's why I decided to try a lake instead.

Not sure how to stop that, honestly.

[Peewee]

Additionally, I'd like to solicit designs for airlocks that can flood and drain using pumps (they must work when completely submerged) ...

Code: [Select]

XXXXXXXXX
XXX~X_XXX
XXX%X%XXX
X<X%X%X<X
XoX_X_XoX
XXXXXXXXX
F++#+#++F
F+++++++F
XXXXXXXXX
 level 0


XXXXX~XXX
XXXXX~XXX
XXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXX
XXX X XXX
XXX X XXX
XXX X XXX
XXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXX
 level-1[/font]

[Fossaman]

Could you explain that in a little more detail? I'm not exactly sure what's going on there.

[Peewee]

Sorry, I had to leave but I didn't have time to copy it into a text file. 
Here's the complete version:

Code: [Select]

XXXXXXXXX.
XXX_XXXXX.
XXX%X|++X.
+>X%XXX>X.
XXX~XXXXX.
XXX~XXXXX.
XXX~~~~~~~
XXXXXXXXX.
XXXXXXXXX.
 level+1

XXXXXXXXX~
XXX~X_XXX~
XoX%X%XoX~
X<X%X%X<X~
XoX_X_XoX~
XXXXXXXXX~
F#+++#++F~
F#+++#++F~
XXXXXXXXX~
 level 0


XXXXXXXXX~
XXXXX~~~~~
XXXXXXXXX~
XXXXXXXXX~
XXX+X+XXX~
XXX+X+XXX~
X+++X+XXX~
X+XXX+XXX~
XXXXXXXXX~
 level-1

[/font]

X is just wall (or anything that blocks water, really) because I didn't bother to go find the real wall tiles.

+ is floor tiles

> and < are stairs connected to each other. Ignore the sign and use common sense to figure out which way they go. Up/down stairs can be used at the higher levels.

. are open spaces above the body of water. The pump stack must get to at least the top layer with water in it so there's somewhere to put the water.

%
% are pump tiles;
Z 0:The left one faces north, the right pump faces south.
Z+1: it faces south.
The left pump is actually the bottom of a pump stack, which can put the water wherever you like (this version assumes pumping it back into the lake or ocean)

| is a vertical axle, which leads to a gear assembly hooked to one of the levers. Do try to remember to put the axle over the impassible part of the pump. Otherwise, water will probably rush up from the lake.

~ is water;
Over to the right is the body of water you're making an airlock in to/out of.
To the left is the fortress (on level+1 there is a path leading to it.

# are grates with channels under them

_ are channels

o are levers;
The left two levers drain the airlock and open the left two floodgates/doors.
The right two levers fill the airlock with water and open the right two floodgates/doors.
You could also put the levers inside the flooding chamber if you like, though I would recommend having the draining lever in your fort, but you don't have to if you like having fun.

F are floodgates/doors, controlled by the levers.

You can always add more layers to the pump stack, and you can also probably figure out a way to power the pumps from below.

Also note that the right pump at Z-0 will probably flood over its passable tile, so plan for that by using a door rather than just leaving a corridor.
Place fortifications where you like at the in/out water paths to prevent nasties from getting to your pumps.

EDIT: Now I want to go and find a site where I could actually use this =/

The way it should work:
Entering from lake:
You swim into the open chamber and wait (or pull a lever or two). The opening behind you shuts, and you hear rushing water. The water level slowly drops away as it is pumped out through some nearby grates. Once the chamber is dry, (you pull another lever or rig something with a pressure pad) an opening in front of you appears, and you begin to explore the underwater fortress.

Exiting to the lake:
You enter the chamber again, richer than you were when you entered. You pull a lever, the doors slam shut, and water starts bubbling up from grates in the middle of the room. When the room is full of water, the gates leading outside open up and you swim out, only to be eaten by a school of carp.

[Fossaman]

Hmm...well, that might work. The pumps definitely need to be powered from below; the only thing I want showing above the surface of the lake is a golden statue marking the airlock location. I'm not sure if I'll be able to do that with pump stacks needed...maybe I can have large drain caverns somewhere below ground where the water can spread out. Doubles as farmland, too, I suppose.

I know I've seen pumps run underwater before; does anybody know how the water acts? I thought I remembered big hills of water coming up on the surface.

I'm kind of thinking that I could simply incorporate the impassable pump section into the airlock wall, one level up. This puts the passable part over the inside floor, where I could put a gear assembly or vertical axle to power it. I still need to do some research into airtight power transference. Flooding could be done manually, by opening the doors to the lake. Not quite as fancy, but...we'll see. It'll take some experimenting.


In other news, the one week freeze in the winter (everything but the lake freezes) is a bit disastrous for my framerate. 2 FPS, because it blocked water from getting off the map. Messy. I think I'll have to make sure that the pumping takes less than a full year to complete, so I have a period where I can work on walling off my construction area.

[Peewee]

You could probably manage a simpler version if you just opened the exterior gates to flood the place, yeah.
Remember that you absolutely MUST close the exterior doors BEFORE opening the drains or starting the pumps (if you plan on just dropping the water into a farm plot or chamber) or else your evaporating chamber will fill surprisingly fast because of the pressure.

Pumps work just fine underwater.
The reason for pyramids of water is because water pressure forces the pump to teleport WAY more water than if it were just flowing normally.

I found that out while making a fully automated obsidian factory (still working out a bug with it not shutting off once the block is done), which has a 10x10x4 pit for water. That water drops INSANELY fast into an underwater pumping station that brings it to the top of the chamber that forms the obsidian block, so one frame I have an empty chamber and practically the next frame, it's 3/4 full.

Might I suggest you power the pump from below... using another pump?
You could put the impassable tile of the non-functional 'just-a-couple-gears' pump under the impassable tile of the water pump, and channel down to it.

Code: [Select]

XXXX
=%&X
XXXX
XX~X
-1

= axle leading to power generator

XX~X
XX&X
++%+ <---
++_+ <--- the chamber
0

& impassable
% passable
I don't know if pumps will pump through under a grate or not... this needs experimenting.

[Fossaman]

Pumps can pump through grates and bars, yes. I've got some running on the map I'm doing all this on.

I'd thought of the defunct-pump method to power it while keeping it sealed. It would work, but it seems...inelegant. I'll go with it if I have to, but I'm going to be doing some experiments first.

[Peewee]

You could use anything else that transfers power in a similar way. A gear or vertical axle would also work. I found a test that proves that water doesn't go down and diagonal at the same time, so water wouldn't flow through there.

Anyway, good luck!