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[Urist McCheeseMaker]

to please pretty much you alone.

re-read the thread, Corona688. then tell me if you're still confident in your reading comprehension skills. we have had more positive responses than negative ones, the way i see it. or at least far more than one. everyone knows people exaggerate to prove a point, but now you're just going too far.

[Hyperturtle]

Use IDKFA for admantine weapons, and IDDQD for admantine armor!

I have to say I would not be interested in this integrated cheating....  I have only used reveal on maps that I lost and had no hope of saving when reloading (usually to see if I had a good source of X nearby, or what would have been interesting to look at).

I do like the "dfclean" tool, but that just fixes a bug.

I also like the tool to dvdig in the dfhack, so that the dwarfs can continue to dig along the same vein--that seems "natural" since they'll know when the vein stops when there is no more to dig, so there is less micromanagement.

Generally, I think for some the temptation would be too great if the cheats were built in.  Using a poor example, I was on a forum when Spore first came out, and a guy posted he was pissed that he received the Joker achievement that everyone could see, because he cheated to get a zillion credits or whatever, and he was unable to progress beyond his last achievement in that game.  The point was, if you cheat, you don't earn the achievements because you didn't put in the same amount of effort as everyone else, etc, but the guy didn't get it no matter how it was explained.

Perhaps a mode can be entered via a command line flag, or specific commands in-game.  I am thinking of the approach in NetHack--you're able to enter Explore mode and do whatever you'd like, but you do not earn a score and if you proceed to win the game, the achievement isn't saved--because you didn't do it the way it was intended.

Further there is a Wizard mode that lets you do odd things that a creative person would toy with (or a developer) rather than a cheater, but could certainly be used to cheat.  Likewise, score is not recorded.

At this time, though, since DF doesn't really keep score, rank local players, or even keep track of simple achievements (most masterful works made, most legendary dwarfs, most dwarfs in fortress at one time, most items melted, most nobles accidentally removed from office, etc), there's little incentive to keep a player honest, aside from keeping the utilities outside of the game.

Certainly you can have your own style of playing, and certain things would be good for a beginner--or just trying a new strategy.  For example, my last fort was so besieged by goblins and humans, it became ridiculous and I couldn't accomplish anything before the next wave.  So in the next fort I disabled invaders.  Is that cheating?  I later turned invaders on again.

Or how about cat shells?  Or aquatic cats to solve the catsplosion?  those were all cheating things I did to solve a problem, but I wouldn't expect the function to be in the game to suddenly create shells and clean up the cats.  The lack of turtles and lobsters were a problem, and insane moody dwarfs were the #1 loss of dwarf life in my fortress at the time.  So I modded the cat shells in. 

I think the game is fine (aside from the errant bugs) without being told certain things or given super options at the press of a button. 

Perhaps a new role could be for the dwarfen geologist?  After you dig some tunnels down, this new noble could then remove some of the "fog" underground, giving you an idea of what to expect in the area, after he returns to his office to review the tunnel borings/cores you've made? 

An element of surprise in the game is valuable, I think, and just being able to find everything immediately takes some of the fun out of it for me.

 

[PiCroft]

I don't disagree with anything you say (in fact, a dwarf geologist sounds cool) but remember, its not necessary to keep the cheats in a menu by default. The commands could be "enabled" in a text file or as you say, a command-line parameter.

I think its also worth pointing out that while some players do "cheat", others use these utilities for creativity. I, for example, don't particularly care about score, I want to make a cool tomb suspended over lava with golden statues etc blahblah and to do this, it certainly helps to see the stone so I can plan it out without digging into a cavern or something. Also, as I said before, I'm a sad bastard who likes colour coordination :p This is even more relevant in the new versions since the underground is so much more complex and its very hard to find large runs of a single colour anymore.

Also, you made a point about a new mode, similar to explore. A Fortress mode with reveal turned on sounds pretty cool. As long as this mode isn't gimped though, if scores are ever put in, I would be fine with this "sandbox" mode being unscored or untracked, but if it gimps you in other areas like turns off other features or buildings or events, then that would be pretty shitty. Its one thing to not score a player, but another thing entirely to gub their game because they want to play around.

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go investigate all these utilites you name-dropped!