Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Author Topic: Super Marksgoblin  (Read 2051 times)

The Philosopher

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Super Marksgoblin
« on: November 18, 2008, 07:59:28 pm »

I've recently had my fort seiged by 2 squads of goblins, every single one mounted on beak dogs. The first squad, full of wrestlers, attacked and were quickly dispatched by my marksdwarves, who were 1 z-level up and were firing through fortifications.

The second squad, led by an elite marksgoblin, proceeded to attack my fort. When they got close, the elite marksgoblin started shooting from 10 squares away and one z-level up at my marksdwarves through the fortifications. 3 of my marksdwarves died. Is this a bug or are elite marksgoblins that good?

Logged

Footkerchief

  • Bay Watcher
  • The Juffo-Wup is strong in this place.
    • View Profile
Re: Super Marksgoblin
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2008, 08:24:57 pm »

They really are that good.  Your elites can do it too, not that they'll have many opportunities.
Logged

The Philosopher

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Super Marksgoblin
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2008, 08:46:50 pm »

Is there some way I can get around this problem? Like making the fortifications higher up?
Logged

Jay

  • Bay Watcher
  • ☼Not Dead Yet☼
    • View Profile
Re: Super Marksgoblin
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2008, 09:51:54 pm »

Make your marksdwarves better.
Fortifications aren't (and shouldn't be) impenetrable, no matter what you do.
Losing is Fun!
Logged
Mishimanriz: Histories of Pegasi and Dictionaries

kuro_suna

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Super Marksgoblin
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2008, 09:54:58 pm »

Right now I don't think fortifications or z-level do anything in a crossbow vs crossbow battle
Logged

Sunday

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Super Marksgoblin
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2008, 09:58:00 pm »

Distance makes a huge difference when confronted by normal bowusers.  It does nothing when confronted with Elite or above. 
Logged

Jay

  • Bay Watcher
  • ☼Not Dead Yet☼
    • View Profile
Re: Super Marksgoblin
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2008, 10:15:15 pm »

Fortifications do confer a defensive bonus when you're right next to them vs somebody who's not.
Not that it's worth anything against an elite anyway.
Logged
Mishimanriz: Histories of Pegasi and Dictionaries

Krash

  • Bay Watcher
  • The one and only
    • View Profile
Re: Super Marksgoblin
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2008, 12:28:03 pm »

Fortifications do confer a defensive bonus when you're right next to them vs somebody who's not.

Is this confirmed?
Logged
Quote
MyLittlePonyBuiltMyHotRod, this is your first warning. I would like to direct you to read our forum's FAQ and posting guidelines before posting again. Specifically we don't use swear words here, and your picture of Stalin riding a Year3 Limited Edition Starflower inside a German concentration camp was both upsetting and historically inaccurate.

Yanlin

  • Bay Watcher
  • Legendary comedian.
    • View Profile
Re: Super Marksgoblin
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2008, 12:31:11 pm »

Make your marksdwarves better.
Fortifications aren't (and shouldn't be) impenetrable, no matter what you do.
Losing is Fun!

http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Fun
Logged
WE NEED A SLOGAN!

muwahahaha

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Super Marksgoblin
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2008, 12:15:21 am »

Fortifications do confer a defensive bonus when you're right next to them vs somebody who's not.

Is this confirmed?

It's well known that fortifications DO give defensive bonuses. But to be correct, they don't actually boost your defense in any way, rather, they give a penalty to anyone trying to shoot through them while they are more than 1 square away. Unfortunately, this applies not only to the enemy but also your dwarves if they happen to not be standing next to it.

That said once a unit gets to a high enough skill level, the penalty from the fortifications is negligible.

"Archers firing through fortifications must pass a skill test of some sort if they are not standing directly next to the fortification. This test is more difficult from further distances."

http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Fortification
Logged

BurnedToast

  • Bay Watcher
  • Personal Text
    • View Profile
Re: Super Marksgoblin
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2008, 06:54:41 pm »

Is there some way I can get around this problem? Like making the fortifications higher up?

cross train your marksdwarves in shield use and wrestling, once they hit legendary shield use and legendary wrestling switch them back to bows.

I suggest using hammers to train them rather then wrestling directly, just in case they have to use the crossbows in melee combat. Crossbows use the hammer skill, and while they do less damage then a real hammer when used by a legendary hammerdwarf they are still quite deadly in a pinch
Logged
An ambush! curse all friends of nature!

Jay

  • Bay Watcher
  • ☼Not Dead Yet☼
    • View Profile
Re: Super Marksgoblin
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2008, 09:48:34 pm »

Losing is Fun!
http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Fun
That's exactly the reasoning behind the sentence.
Way to repeat what I said with a link.
Logged
Mishimanriz: Histories of Pegasi and Dictionaries

Glacies

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Super Marksgoblin
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2008, 08:18:39 am »

Losing is Fun!
http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Fun
That's exactly the reasoning behind the sentence.
Way to repeat what I said with a link.
Yes, you repeated what jay said in his post. That was the exact reasoning!

Lightman

  • Bay Watcher
  • The groboclones are looking for you.
    • View Profile
Re: Super Marksgoblin
« Reply #13 on: November 25, 2008, 02:11:28 am »

The second squad, led by an elite marksgoblin, proceeded to attack my fort. When they got close, the elite marksgoblin started shooting from 10 squares away and one z-level up at my marksdwarves through the fortifications. 3 of my marksdwarves died. Is this a bug or are elite marksgoblins that good?

I recommend you place your marksdwarves more than one z-level up. I think that makes a difference. More importantly, don't carve fortifications on every square where you marksdwarves are because that makes them much more likely to be hit (in my experience). There's always a chance that you'll get hit by an elite archer/crossbowman, though. No bugs there.

Logged