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Author Topic: MOO 3  (Read 9714 times)

Sowelu

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Re: MOO 3
« Reply #15 on: March 12, 2008, 02:52:00 pm »

MULE was one of the earliest "party games", in gameplay style.

It generally required four people, and you tried to screw everyone else over economically.  (It was a business game with a space theme.)  Strategizing was kinda like a fast paced Monopoly and you'd promise not to backstab the other guy and then do it anyway, and lose lots of friends.  Wonderful fun!  It was turn-based with very short turns, and lots of market action sections where all players could act simultaneously.

I never had it on one of the original consoles (Atari-era), though I have played a more modern remake...briefly.  It's no fun if you're not playing it multiplayer though...and you kinda all need to be sitting around the same screen.

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His servers are going to be powered by goat blood and moonlight.
Oh, a biomass/24 hour solar facility. How green!

Skeeblix

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Re: MOO 3
« Reply #16 on: March 12, 2008, 10:57:00 pm »

Oy, nevermind, I'm retarded.

[ March 12, 2008: Message edited by: Skeeblix ]

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Gambler

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Re: MOO 3
« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2008, 08:29:00 am »

quote:

MrGimp:
Its a shame the fans had to hack the freaking game to make it playable.

Well, that's true for most of the modern games.

STALKER was developed for something like 7 years, yet it had blatantly obvious deficiencies that were promptly addressed by modders. Which would be okay if devs actually incorporated those mods into later patches, but for the most part (with couple of exceptions) they didn't. It's almost an official policy: "don't complain, just install 5-10 mods that make the game what you want it to be". Again, that's very common attitude.

They don't get one thing: I'm not some kind of ego-maniac who wants everything to reflect myself. One of the main reasons I play games is precisely that I'm interested in visions other people. And that's the thing that is missing from most of the modern commercial titles, which often feel like some kind of DIY toolkits.

...

BTW, I'm surprised nobody here mentioned GalCiv.

[ March 14, 2008: Message edited by: Gambler ]

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MrGimp

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Re: MOO 3
« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2008, 08:50:00 am »

GalCiv is great man!  THAT is the inheritor of the MOO throne in my humble opinion.  I have both of em.  And the expansion pack for GalCiv two.  

Man...Im typing so slow...I had to get up early to watch the stock market (thats my favorite video game nowadays, lol)....good lord.  They dont take it easy on us west coasters.  I have to get up at the god awful hour of 6:30 in the AM.  I didnt even know they MADE a six thirty in the AM.  And I was up till 2 last night playing dwarf fortress.   haha

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Sowelu

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Re: MOO 3
« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2008, 02:17:00 pm »

GalCiv's AI disappointed me terribly.

Maybe it's just because they hyped it so much...but the computer should -really- be able to tell that I'm *only building missiles*, and it should actually research something other than laser defenses.

Also, I found its sense of humor really grating.  Alpha Centauri had the best technology descriptions ever, and the game benefitted HUGELY from it... GalCiv's technology descriptions read like placeholders.  Literally.  I think one of the descriptions for a laser upgrade was "Mk. V Phasers.  They're...smaller than the Mk. IV ones...and better...and...marketing is on vacation right now, what do you want from me?"  Color me unimpressed.  Clearly someone thought descriptions like that were funny--Me, I was extremely disappointed.

Oh yeah, and it's a *turn based* game...that runs really slow because of its graphics.  I have to play zoomed out to the point where it stops drawing 3d models, and instead just draws symbols, and my machine is actually pretty modern.

I guess that's not the worst criticism a game could receive--GalCiv's main gameplay is actually not too bad.  But when you're talking about a singleplayer-only game, saying "Its AI is not the second coming of Jesus, as was advertised; its flavor text is worthless; and its graphics are too slow" is pretty scathing.

[ March 14, 2008: Message edited by: Sowelu ]

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Some things were made for one thing, for me / that one thing is the sea~
His servers are going to be powered by goat blood and moonlight.
Oh, a biomass/24 hour solar facility. How green!

MrGimp

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Re: MOO 3
« Reply #20 on: March 14, 2008, 03:13:00 pm »

Are you talking GalCiv 1 or GalCiv 2?  I did have the slow turn problem very bad in GalCiv 1, but in GC 2 I never had any problems.  I never noticed that with the tech descriptions though...in GC1 or 2.  But I dont think I ever read very many of them.  But if they joke around like that in their game, yeah, its a bit tacky.  A games should take itself seriously, at least if its trying to be a serious game.  (thats circular logic...does that even make sense?  lol)

In GC2 they DO change their defenses based on what you build, but they also base it on what other empires are building.  And since the AI tend to have similar strategies for the most part, if you have a galaxy full of AI civs all building lasers, theyre going to all be producing shields too.  So you can roll over em with missiles.

But it was still a pretty hard game.  No AI is perfect.  But the GC AI is better than MOST 4X AI out there.  What other game in that genre can give that much of a challenge?

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Sowelu

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Re: MOO 3
« Reply #21 on: March 14, 2008, 08:33:00 pm »

I was referring to GalCiv 2.

It's possible I just always had the galaxy settings wrong, and always abused diplomacy enough to make it too easy, but...Okay, I guess I can't complain TOO much.  GalCiv 2 at least is a worthy successor to MOO.

...Except for the tacky tech descriptions.  I can complain about those all I want.

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Some things were made for one thing, for me / that one thing is the sea~
His servers are going to be powered by goat blood and moonlight.
Oh, a biomass/24 hour solar facility. How green!

MrGimp

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Re: MOO 3
« Reply #22 on: March 14, 2008, 09:48:00 pm »

Yeah, like I said, I never really read the descriptions, but if I had, I would have been annoyed by that.  I dont why some dry corporate programmer humor in my game of galactic conquest.  haha

But it definitely is a worthy successor to MOO, its just too bad MOO3's development was handled by a bunch of hacks.  

Its such a classic fuck up:  Big title gets attention of some developer.  Developer gets too 'hands-on' in making the game.  Developer puts the artist - a loyal company yes man - in charge of the project 2/3rds of the way through and completely overhauls the game.  After a year of delays, developer shoves the game out the door unfinished, never bothering to patch or support their producte or their fans.  Developer wonders what why no one likes them and why their games bomb and they lose all their money.

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Jonathan S. Fox

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Re: MOO 3
« Reply #23 on: March 14, 2008, 11:09:00 pm »

I bought GalCiv 2, but haven't played it as much as I would normally because I don't have a Windows box handy, and it doesn't behave well under emulated Windows for me. What I played, lead me to respect it as one of the best games in its genre that I've seen.

That it actually had a meaningful internal political system was astounding, even as simple as it was. You actually chose your government's political party at the beginning of the game and if enabling a democratic government, you were penalized for losing control over the Senate until you took control again, usually in exactly the area you need bonuses, not penalties, in (as the people vote for the war hawks when you go to war, etc., which backfires for you...).

It had small, independent non-expansionist non-empire races that you could maintain diplomatic relations with, trade with, surround, attack, whatever. They would still maintain technology and ships and can make a reasonable stand if you declare war on them. It really made the world you played in more rich.

Trade was a major factor and you could feel accomplished if you built a trade empire with routes flying all over the place. There were advantages in deciding how to allocate your trade routes carefully among your opponents and their colonies, as income and diplomatic leverage were both at stake.

Culture and influence was cool, with what I recall to be the most robust culture system I'd seen. It came complete with a meaningful border mechanic and colony cultural revolts. I didn't like the space station mechanic when it came to those, at least so far as overlapping space stations had a higher total effect. That seemed cheap when you could spam powerful influence stations to start systematically dismembering your ally's colonial front (if I recall correctly, this tactic put a serious strain on diplomacy, but I remember doing serious damage to some allies by having their colonies revolting and joining me).

It had a mechanic for you to design your own ships and it was both tactically meaningful and balanced to allow you to do so -- and the mechanic was extremely freeform when it came to player creativity in developing the appearance of the ship. A so-inclined player could spend a long time designing ships for the game, and many players did.

It even had cute random challenges where something would come up and you'd make a decision based on the evil, neutral, and good options, and individualized different empires' technology development based on their alignment.

I do remember the tech descriptions, and I do remember the unfortunate "marketing is on vacation" laser thingy. The style isn't my preference, I loved the Alpha Centauri style of description and tech development flavor text, but I resigned myself to getting to used to it and focusing on the good parts of the game. They obviously didn't emphasize it and just wanted to gloss over that traditional feature with a bit of humor, so I decided to humor them.

At the end of the day, it's one of the most fun games in its genre I've played, and, as I said, I continue to respect it as one of the best of its genre.

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Mover#005

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Re: MOO 3
« Reply #24 on: March 15, 2008, 03:21:00 pm »

Just two words:

Derek Smart.

I don't care enough about him to write up the shit he caused as game designer. When you don't know him, just google him, its fun. He is some sort of bizarro-toady. It's good that nobody cares about his games, so he's quite funny to watch. It was very cool how the whole fanbase of Freespace screamed out in unison when he "threatened" to do a freespace 3, through.

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MrGimp

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Re: MOO 3
« Reply #25 on: March 16, 2008, 01:15:00 pm »

lol, I googled Derek Smart, read a bit about him, got a link to Battlecruiser 3000AD.  I saw the screenshots, thought it looked nice.  I saw it was available for free.  I thought, it cant be so bad as to not be worth it at THAT price.  So I downloaded it.  I installed it.  It failed to install.  I installed again, it worked.  I clicked to play it.  It crashed partway through the intro.  I clicked it again, it worked.  I spent 30 minutes trying to figure out how the hell you launch, the launch button didnt do anything.  I finally figured it out, accidentally.  I went to quit the game, I clicked the button 'logoff'.  Instead of being taken to the main menu, I found myself flying through space.  haha

So I flew to Venus.  I couldnt figure out how the hell to disembark to the space station.  Then the game crashed.

This Derek Smart guy should just give up.  How can you spend 7 years on a game, and not even make it able to install or start or play properly???  What programming language was he using?  Exploder++?

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Jonathan S. Fox

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Re: MOO 3
« Reply #26 on: March 16, 2008, 09:51:00 pm »

I think it was F--
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