Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Author Topic: Getting Elves to survive  (Read 954 times)

Jingles

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Getting Elves to survive
« on: July 18, 2008, 12:55:24 am »
As it seems that this is a problem that only affect me I was hopeing that someone had a solution to it.  Even in my most recently generated word no elves survived to the year 101 (or kobolds either for that matter but Im more concerned about the elves).  The elves always seem to die out by the year 20 or so (the Kobolds seem to die in year two).  I'd like them to last until 1025 but Id be happy if they lasted long enough for roads to appear. 

This was my latesest set up and other then the elves and kobolds going extinct its producing what I consider to be an almost perfect world (given that there is no sea travel implimented as of yet).  Its got an almost conteniental feel but with land connections still reaching everywhere, its covered with rivers, forests, caves, volanoes, and lots of evil and mega-beasts to go around.

(the beasts end year is now two because I wanted to see if ending early would help the elves, if I let it go to 1025 there are still one or two dragons around so its not that critical that the world end early for megabeast survival).

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Logged

Dasqoot

  • Bay Watcher
  • He-wenching for the cause.
    • View Profile
Re: Getting Elves to survive
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2008, 01:13:33 am »
Bump your minimum amount of forests for small medium and large terrain up to like 20 or 30 past what they are. I can't imagine a world not taken over by elves at this point, however, so I think you are crazy!

Can't really read the code, btw. So not sure if you've already done this. I still say that if the elves don't rule the world in every world you generate that we are playing different games =P.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2008, 01:15:57 am by Dasqoot »
Logged

Jingles

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Getting Elves to survive
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2008, 09:51:34 am »
I'm not sure quite what you mean otherwise I'd do it.  The world this creates is chock full of forest so much so that increasing the inital square count for forest results in infinite rejects (or at least a thousand which is where I stop).  Frankly Id be happily surprised to see any elves past the year 100.
Logged

Wiles

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Getting Elves to survive
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2008, 10:19:46 am »
I have never had a world without elves personally.

You could try going into the entity_default raw file and changing their initial population values to something like

[MAX_STARTING_CIV_NUMBER:10]
[START_GROUP_NUMBER:25]
« Last Edit: July 18, 2008, 10:22:29 am by Wiles »
Logged

Deathworks

  • Bay Watcher
  • There be no fortress without its feline rulers!
    • View Profile
Re: Getting Elves to survive
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2008, 10:32:32 am »
Hi!

This is really weird. I have had a few worlds with elves extinct, but I also have had enough with them around.

Maybe something is wrong with your program (I can't really imagine that, but still...). Here a suggestion to check things out: Over in the announcement thread about 39c, I just posted the info about a medium sized world (129x129), which has all races, including elves in the year 700. I put up the generation data, as well as the map of the world and the file at the depot. I suggest you use my generation data and see if you can generate that world or whether you have elves get extinct again.

My raws are not modded, so if yours are also as packaged, you should theoretically get elves with this setup. And maybe you notice a difference that may be responsible.

AH!
I just saw what is probably your problem: non-mountain caves 800
While it is a good way to increase the survival chances for megabeasts, it also means that you have a lot (really a lot) of caves with giants on your map, everywhere. These giants regularly attack settlements in the vicinity and can even lead to complete extinction of races.

Try reducing the non-mountain caves to 300 and see how it works out. (I guess non-mountain caves threaten humans and elves and mountain caves threaten goblins and dwarves)

Kobolds are a bit more tricky as they also need the caves, but once you have reduced the giant number, their chances of survival also increases (^_^;;

Deathworks
Logged

Jingles

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Getting Elves to survive
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2008, 10:59:06 am »
Haha, it appears that you were right Deathworks!  I've run a couple of tests with the non mountain caves set to 150 and elves managed to survive to the year 200.  Now for the real test, the year 1025.

I also tried editing the raws and can solve the problem that way if worse comes to worse, it's just a matter of striking the right balance, but I'd prefer to get it working in vanilla.
Logged

Deathworks

  • Bay Watcher
  • There be no fortress without its feline rulers!
    • View Profile
Re: Getting Elves to survive
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2008, 02:32:23 pm »
Hi!

The high number of destructive giant raids was something I noticed (I mean, 2,000 raids on a single dwarven hall by the year 600 - you can't be serious). And civilzations extinct - well I have this one world 10 civs setting with 1,600 caves and seven abandoned halls/towns/forest retreats/fortress. No living human,dwarf, elf, or goblin since around the year 120. A good world if you do not want to be bothered by anyone :) :) :)

Anyhow, the reason I responded was to point out something which may be useful for such cases. When you are investigating something like this, get the general info/map generated for the world. In the history file, you get all the civilizations created with their rulers, including the death of these rulers (except for the aristocratic humans). This can give you a hint whether civilizations of the race you want have been created and how many have been created.

With the year of death of the last of the rulers, you can then go into the legends (provided you opted for revealed legends, of course) and then sift through the time around that for the death event of the ruler; probably this will link you to the war or rampage at the core of his/her demise.

Alternatively, you can look for the abandoned sites in the sites file and then see the sites' history in the legends - this way, you can see if there was some pattern to the trouble. Sites are sorted caves first then all else (kobolds are irregular; sometimes they live in the first bunch of caves, sometimes they have an extra cave listed with the towns).

BTW, the sites file lists all inhabitants of a site (only race not name), so it is nice for a quick head count of megabeasts or demons :) :) You can also see whether there are any goblin fortresses actually inhabitated by goblins :) :) :) :)

Deathworks
Logged