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[Cryten]

Gday Ive taken a seed from http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=19954.0 and Im told it has an underground river. Ive got a few questions so I know how to deal with it without wiping out my fortress.

So here goes:
1) If I order criss crossing mines throughout the map will the wet tile warning stop me from crashing right through the wall and flooding my fortress or getting overun by agro critters

2) If I have a problem with 1 what are the better ways to locate the river without a slaughter. No cheating please.

3) Once located if I channel a square from above into the river will creatures jump up into the channel and invade the fort?

4) Can marks dwarves snipe river critters through fortification set above the discovered underground river?

Help is appreciated. Thankyou.

[Makrond]

1. Yes. That said, if you start mining on the right z-level, it should just reveal the whole thing.
2. There shouldn't be a problem, but in case there is, bring a few war dogs.
3. No (confirm?)
4. Not to my knowledge.

[Deon]

1) Actually you have to breach the river's wall (under or above water) to see it. Also after you do it you will be able to grow towercaps (they will grow by themselves on muddy tiles underground).
There're 2 ways to breach in the river: a) If you mined at the same level as the water runs you see the blue dump stone so no problems here. b) If you mine a bit above and breach the wall you can end at the river's bank however they are rare so in most cases you'll be just higher and won't notice the river at all. But if you dig downwards, you'll get no warning until you find it. It won't flood you upwards but some nasty critters may appear so be ready with a small squad. c) if you are digging upwards and breach the river from the bottom your whole level and levels below are under flooding danger, so be warned.

2) The easiest way with a bit of 'cheating' without side programs is to locate hidden corpses, the game allows it.
If the river had a small waterfall there could be occasional river critters deaths via falling so if you check their list you'll see dead cave river creatures. Zoom to their corpses via stocks screen and you'll know where the river is.

3) If you make a channel they won't be able to jump, you need to make a ramp/stairs in the river's side to allow them to go up. However they can attack from the z-1 level so be careful with dwarves at  the sides of the hole.

4) Just remember that fortification on z+1 makes a "dead zone":

Code: [Select]

__F
##.......... <- first few tiles are unseen from above
#######
If the creatures are on level below far enough from your dwarves they will snipe'em.

[gurra_geban]

you might want to reconsider killing the beasts, when caging and taming/using in traps can also increase your forts cool factor!

[LeoLeonardoIII]

If you dig into the river from the same Z-level, water pours out in a reasonable manner and you probably won't lose your miner.

If you dig in from underneath by digging an upward ramp, water will pour out like crazy and you might lose your miner.

Also you generally have a z-level with water in it and a z-level above it where there is no water but it's an open space. So if you expose that part, you won't get any flooding and it will map out the cave river for you. But you also won't get a notice of wet walls.

I recommend digging out a shaft going down a ways off from where you think the river will be. Dig down to the bottom. Branching off dig 2-wide tunnels down the middle of the likely embark map square, because features tend to be seated in the middle of a square. Build doors at the entrance to the staircase shaft, so if you do get flooding you can just lock the doors and you won't fill up your basement.
Also, explore only on every other level. You're wasting your time exploring the other half of them, since you'll either break through on the river's surface level or get a wet wall warning by exploring every other level.
Once you figure out where it is, turn off mining on all your good miners, set up your floodgates and link them, and have a peasant go mine out the last wall. That way, if you lose the miner it's a peasant you don't care about.
This is also a good opportunity to get rid of all the peasants by drowning. It's faster than starvation and madness.

[shadow_archmagi]

you might want to reconsider killing the beasts, when caging and taming/using in traps can also increase your forts cool factor!

War Eel-men. Truely, it will be a hentaic battle.

[Hague]

As far as I've noticed, the top of the cave river will be at the lowest surface z-level. This is considered paralell with the water-table where one can reasonably expect the top of a river to be.

[LeoLeonardoIII]

^ This is beautiful and needs to be wiki'd if true.

[Hague]

I'll do some tests to be sure.

EDIT: Okay, it appears my observation was incorrect. I tested in a mountain zone and the top of the brook was two z-levels above the top of the cave river. However, the cave river was at the lowest surface point in the mountain biome that it existed in. In fact, this one had it's source as a waterfall outside, with water materializing from nowhere


However the water itself was at the lowest surface z-point on the map

Another test reveals there is no real correlation between the surface and the top of a cave river as the river in this scenario was. Sorry to get your hopes up

[RandomRandomUK]

I've been messing around with one of these underground river things.. I can confirm that you can make carve fortifications and snipe river creatures.. making the river run red with blood mwhahahah..

Also you can use floodgates to fill a reservoir full of water to use as you see fit. But you have to be quick with the levers because the water fills up fast, i.e. order the lever pulled plenty early.

If you mine into even the space above a river, river creatures WILL CLIMB OUT and attack your dwarves. This happened to me so I know. It seems they can climb 1 z level, which ruined my fun plan to have a bridge over the river.

If you carve fortifications on the same level as the water, the water will go through, so don't do this. Fortifications on the level above are cool though, although this will cause nearby civilians to flee if there are monsters on the other side, making it a bit difficult to carve extensive fortifications around the river.

My river goes down several z levels as it goes from one side of the map to the other so be aware of this possibility. Veins of ore seem to carry on to the other side of the river no problem. That's about all I know so far about these things.  That and that they have an unlimited supply of water. Which is scary for flooding purposes.