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[Dasleah]

Well, after discovering that DF expects certain files to be present, I've finally gotten it to generate a world from my raws without a single error in the log. It seems to work fine - I poked around Legends and saw some logical things, fired up Adventure Mode and got killed by a Mace Lord trying to beat a child to death with his own kidneys, at that was fine.

So, heady and foolish on wild optimism, I decided to start up the meat of DF - the Fortress Mode. The site selection mode comes up properly, and it throws up a warning if I choose a place with an aquifer - but as soon as I touch that 'e', DF either hangs or outright crashes.

There are civs present, I'm choosing areas I know to be heavily populated in my creatures. So why is it crashing? Does anyone have any ideas - no matter how wild - on what could be causing it? Nothing's showing up in the errorlog, I'm deleting the contents of data/objects and region1 each time I generate a new world, which happens whenever I completely replace the objects/raw file (with my own content - anything that isn't done from scratch I've augmented with DF's own files)

As I said, nothing's popping up in the errorlog, and it's weird that Adventure Mode works and Fortress Mode doesn't.

[ May 31, 2008: Message edited by: Dasleah ]

[Sean Mirrsen]

Some people have already had such problems I think. It usually has to do something with custom creatures having various issues with existing ones. There's really no way to help without seeing the details of the mod.

[Dasleah]

Well, I could pop up an alpha of the mod, but it'd be too much to ask anyone but myself to have to go through and debug... let's see, 104 new animals at last count. I think at this point I'm going to have taking chunks out until it does work and build on that.

I believe I may have an issue with my large insects. A bunch of Zombie Swoop Bees suffocated for seemingly no reason... Zombie Hyenas, however, are simply lethal. Managed to punch one into oblivion before one grabbed me by the head and shook me to bits.

It's just weird that it works in Adventure and not in Fortress. Which leads me to believe it may be an issue with my domesticated animals and plants. I also don't have any demons at this point - would that cause any funky problems?

[Sean Mirrsen]

No, I don't think it would.

You can upload a pre-alpha of your mod to DFFD and see if anyone can help. I've got periods of intermittent boredness so I could take a peek at it.

[Captain Mayday]

I'll take a look as well.

[Dasleah]

Your generous offers for help must sadly be refuted, gentlemen - I appear to have solved the problem.

The thing is, when creating the mod, I used my own file structure - things like creature_carnivore_cat.txt and the like. When I discovered that DF requires files like large_riverlake.txt, I did a rather sloppy copy-paste job, and accidentally (read: lazily) left several files empty. Adding a single creature to all these empty files has solved the problem.

Man, am I stupid.

I've got a long night of re-organising ahead of me, but at least I can get it to work now.

[Captain Mayday]

quote:Originally posted by Dasleah:
<STRONG>Your generous offers for help must sadly be refuted, gentlemen - I appear to have solved the problem.

The thing is, when creating the mod, I used my own file structure - things like creature_carnivore_cat.txt and the like. When I discovered that DF requires files like large_riverlake.txt, I did a rather sloppy copy-paste job, and accidentally (read: lazily) left several files empty. Adding a single creature to all these empty files has solved the problem.

Man, am I stupid.

I've got a long night of re-organising ahead of me, but at least I can get it to work now.</STRONG>

It doesn't actually require them. DF caches all the file structure in DF\Data\Objects, and this can cause problems.

[Dasleah]

Update: I've narrowed the cause of it all down to a lack of vermin. DF packs a wobbly when you don't have vermin (both fish and otherwise) apparently.

Other than that, everything is working great.

[Dasleah]

Another problem. My insects and giant grubs apparently lack the ability to breathe - they spawn Winded, and then promptly die. I can't for the life of me figure out why.

Here's the relevant body code:

code:

[BODY:2FEELERS]
[BP:LFEELER:left feeler][CONTYPE:HEAD][SMALL]

[BP:RFEELER:right feeler][CONTYPE:HEAD][SMALL]
[BODY:GRUB]
[BP:HD:head][CON:UB][HEAD]
[BP:UB:upper body][UPPERBODY][STANCE]
[BP:LB:lower body][LOWERBODY][GRASP]
[BODY:INSECT]
[BP:UB:thorax][UPPERBODY]
[BP:HD:head][CON:UB][HEAD]
[BP:LB:abdomen][CON:UB][LOWERBODY]
[BP:URA1:upper right first leg][CON:UB][LIMB]

[BP:LRA1:lower right first leg][CON:URA1][LIMB]

[BP:RF1:right first foot][CON:LRA1][STANCE]

[BP:ULA1:upper left first leg][CON:UB][LIMB]

[BP:LLA1:lower left first leg][CON:ULA1][LIMB]

[BP:LF1:left first foot][CON:LLA1][STANCE]

[BP:URA2:upper right second leg][CON:UB][LIMB]

[BP:LRA2:lower right second leg][CON:URA2][LIMB]

[BP:RF2:right second foot][CON:LRA2][STANCE]

[BP:ULA2:upper left second leg][CON:UB][LIMB]

[BP:LLA2:lower left second leg][CON:ULA2][LIMB]

[BP:LF2:left second foot][CON:LLA2][STANCE]

[BP:URA3:upper right third leg][CON:UB][LIMB]

[BP:LRA3:lower right thrid leg][CON:URA3][LIMB]

[BP:LF3:right third foot][CON:ULA3][STANCE]

[BP:ULA3:upper left third leg][CON:UB][LIMB]

[BP:LLA3:lower left third leg][CON:ULA3][LIMB]

[BP:LF3:left third foot][CON:LLA3][STANCE]

And here's two creatures that I can confirm suffer from terminal idiocy (and by extension, the rest of them do too)

code:

[CREATURE:MOTH_GIANT_HAWK]
   [NAME:giant hawk moth:giant hawk moths:giant hawk moth]
   [TILE:236][COLOR:6:0:0]
   [MODVALUE:2]
   [PREFSTRING:fluffy thoraxes]
   [PREFSTRING:dusty wings]
   [PREFSTRING:twitchy feelers]
   [LARGE_ROAMING]
   [FLIER]
   [MAXAGE:10:15]
   [CLUSTER_NUMBER:2:10]
   [POPULATION_NUMBER:10:20]
   [BENIGN][MEANDERER][NATURAL]
   [MATUTINAL][NOCTURNAL][CREPUSCULAR]
   [SIZE:4][FAT:1][NOBONES][CHITIN]
   [PET][PETVALUE:300]
   [BODY:INSECT:2FEELERS:2WINGS:2EYES:2LUNGS:HEART:BRAIN:ORGANS:GUTS:SPINE:BRAIN:MOUTH:THROAT]
   [ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:3:GORE]
   [CHILD:1][CHILDNAME:hawk mothling:hawk mothlings]
   [HOMEOTHERM:10067]
   [STANDARD_FLESH]
   [LAYERING:100]
   [BIOME:ANY_TEMPERATE_FOREST]
   [BIOME:ANY_TROPICAL_FOREST]
[CREATURE:ANT_WOLF_LARVAE]
   [NAME:wolf ant larvae:wolf ant larvae:wolf ant larvae]
   [TILE:247][COLOR:2:0:1]
   [MODVALUE:2]
   [PREFSTRING:slimy bodies]
   [PREFSTRING:snapping jaws]
   [PREFSTRING:grunting]
   [LARGE_ROAMING]
   [MAXAGE:3:5]
   [CLUSTER_NUMBER:2:10]
   [POPULATION_NUMBER:10:20]
   [BENIGN][MEANDERER][NATURAL]
   [DIURNAL]
   [SIZE:2][FAT:2][NOBONES][CHITIN]
   [PET_EXOTIC][PETVALUE:300]
   [BODYGLOSS:MOUTHPINCERS]
   [BODY:GRUB:2FEELERS:2EYES:2LUNGS:HEART:BRAIN:ORGANS:GUTS:SPINE:BRAIN:MOUTH:THROAT]
   [ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:MOUTH:spit:spits:1:2:HEAT]
   [CHILD:1][CHILDNAME:immature wolf ant larvae:immature wolf ant larvae]
   [HOMEOTHERM:10067]
   [STANDARD_FLESH]
   [LAYERING:100]
   [BIOME:GRASSLAND_TROPICAL]
   [BIOME:SAVANNA_TROPICAL]
   [BIOME:GRASSLAND_TEMPERATE]
   [BIOME:SAVANNA_TEMPERATE]
   [BIOME:SHRUBLAND_TEMPERATE]
   [BIOME:SHRUBLAND_TROPICAL]

Apologies if this stretches the forum.

And yes, I'm making sure that I do a fresh world gen each time I make a change, as well as clearing out the data/objects folder each time.

I'm sure it's something obvious, but I can't for the life of me see what. All of my other creatures are fine - well, except the Snakes, that have the same problem as above, but I'm guessing the problem is related, and I'd rather not spam raws. Oh, and I haven't touched any of the standard body_default entries - they're all there, in the same file.

EDIT: Ah, what the hell. Here's some sample snake entries:

code:

========In body_default:
[BODY:TONGUE_SMELL]
[BP:TONGUE:tongue][CONTYPE:HEAD][SMELL][SMALL][EMBEDDED][APERTURE]
[BODY:SNAKE]
[BP:HD:head][CON:UB][HEAD]
[BP:UB:upper body][UPPERBODY][STANCE]
[BP:MB:middle body][CON:UB][GRASP]
[BP:LB:lower body][CON:MB][LOWERBODY]
[BP:TAIL:tail][CON:LB][GRASP]
[BP:US:upper spine][CON:UB][SMALL][NERVOUS][INTERNAL]
[BP:MS:middle spine][CON:MB][SMALL][NERVOUS][INTERNAL]
[BP:LS:lower spine][CON:LB][SMALL][NERVOUS][INTERNAL]
=========In a separate file:
[CREATURE:SNAKE_FIREBITE]
   [NAME:firebite snake:firebite snakes:firebite snake]
   [TILE:115][COLOR:4:0:0]
   [PREFSTRING:hissing]
   [PREFSTRING :potent poison]
   [PREFSTRING:red scales]
   [LARGE_ROAMING]
   [VERMINHUNTER]
   [MAXAGE:15:25]
   [CLUSTER_NUMBER:1:3][LOOSE_CLUSTERS]
   [POPULATION_NUMBER:5:10]
   [MEANDERER][NATURAL]
   [DIURNAL]
   [SIZE:5][FAT:2]
   [PET_EXOTIC][PETVALUE:400]
   [EXTRACT:firebite venom:5:0:0]
   [EXTRACT_PARALYZE_INTERMITTENT]
   [BODY:SNAKE:2EYES:TONGUE_SMELL:2LUNGS:HEART:GUTS:ORGANS:THROAT:NECK:BRAIN:MOUTH]
   [ATTACK:MAIN:BYTYPE:MOUTH:bite:bites:1:2:HEAT][ATTACKFLAG_CANLATCH][SPECIALATTACK_INJECT_EXTRACT:50:100]
   [CHILD:2][CHILDNAME:immature firebite snake:immature firebite snakes]
   [HOMEOTHERM:10067]
   [STANDARD_FLESH]
   [LAYERING:100]
   [SWIMS_INNATE][SWIM_SPEED:2500]
   [NO_WINTER]
   [BIOME:ANY_DESERT]
   [BIOME:GRASSLAND_TROPICAL]
   [BIOME:SHRUBLAND_TROPICAL]
   [BIOME:SAVANNA_TROPICAL]
   [BIOME:ANY_TROPICAL_FOREST]
   [BIOME:GRASSLAND_TEMPERATE]
   [BIOME:SHRUBLAND_TEMPERATE]
   [BIOME:SAVANNA_TEMPERATE]

[ May 31, 2008: Message edited by: Dasleah ]

[Sean Mirrsen]

Well, for the GRUB body, the head comes before the body it connects to, thus your creature effectively ends up without a brain. The INSECT body seems alright to me. I'm not sure if the lack of a nervous neck piece has any effect on the matter. Try giving them NOTHOUGHT, see if that fixes it. If it does, it's either the brain - which is connected alright - or the nervous connections - in which case you need a NERVOUS SMALL INTERNAL part attached to the head.

edit: the snake also has the head before the upper body in the body file. Order matters here. Also, check for them necks.

[ May 31, 2008: Message edited by: Sean Mirrsen ]

[Dasleah]

Thanks, didn't realise that the order was important. I've fixed them around and have given everything necks - I'll see if that does anything.

EDIT: Well, I can't get snakes to spawn (does PET_EXOTIC overrule COMMON_DOMESTIC and stops them from being bought at embark? It looks like it), but the insects can at least now breathe, so I'll just assume that they're all fixed until proven otherwise. Same with grubs - hell, if I can't get them to work after that, I suppose I could just give them [NOBREATHE], huh?    

[ May 31, 2008: Message edited by: Dasleah ]

[Deon]

Better fix it than give them strange tokens I say =).

The best way for me to debug creatures was to set a minor playable entity for them and start as adventurer of that race.
Usually you can see problems with organs immideately.

[Dasleah]

Yeah, that makes sense. I usually just whack them with COMMON_DOMESTIC, fire up the Combat Log, and set all my 7 starting Dwarves to Hunting. Lets me see if there's anything wrong, get a kick out of all the PREFSTRINGs and names are showing up and spelt properly, and giggle as I watch my Dwarves crash-tackle Giant Koalas and get murdered by Aurochs  

[Dasleah]

Okay, something new. I have a few animals popping up for purchase on embark that shouldn't be there. They don't have COMMON_DOMESTIC or anything, and many don't have tags in common - as in, some have TRAINABLE, some don't - and none of the other 'domestic' tags. And yet every now and then, I get the option to buy Wolves and Pygmy Mammoths (and such, including Hunting and War variations of them occassionaly) when you shouldn't be able to. I'm thinking that maybe this is an error caused by the fact that I don't have any COMMON_DOMESTIC vermin hunters.

Or is this normal behaviour? They've all had the PET tags so far. Does this mean that some are 'tamed' during world gen and I'm able to take a few with me upon embark? If so, awesome, and ignore this post.

[Sean Mirrsen]

The "pet" tag automatically makes a creature available for purchase at embark. There may be several things intervening - like unmatching biomes (if a creature is not present in the any of the biomes your civ occupies, it most likely won't be there) or the absense of the ANY_PET_RACE tag on the entity.