Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Imp]

I scumread EP pretty hard for his one word post as a result of the post count.

Not really a good or bad thing, just something that happened.

Yeah, I was already scumreading EP for being a bit different in playstyle - that one word post, to 'unhelpfully' answer the exact question I asked, both made me think that was more the EP I'm used to seeing as town, and an EP that doesn't think working with me is useful, helpful, wise, or important; thinks I'm probably scum.  If scum, I thought EP was doing that to help measure the group's willingness to elim me D1, agreeing with the agreeable-to-everyone-else EP that Imp is for killing.

Clearly that wasn't what was actually going on (though maybe EP felt it not useful to 'help' me, or maybe just intentionally answered exactly the question I asked, even 'helpfully' so... I know how to prompt engineer, I just wasn't using that skill set on my fellow human  )

But this game I felt like scum because of how weak my reads of everyone else were.... that darn post limit, maybe

I found the post limit profoundly affecting.  It affected my play and my reads.

That said, I don't protest it, I think it was fair and acceptable, I'd join another game with it, it's just another modifier to me.  In practice, it turned out generous and adequate, even players that appeared to respond to it by posting more than they usually seem to (EP, CM - maybe other reasons, but both of them posted a lot for a D1, it seems to me) stayed well within the limit.

In terms of bringing me personally into the game, engaging my interest, making me feel 'satisfied' and 'like I actually played' - the post limit hinders that.  It's like (I imagine) drinking a non-alcoholic beer when you would like to feel drunk soon... it kinda isn't gonna support that, you gotta imagine the effect.

[Elephant Parade]

Nah, I just thought it'd be bad to answer that question at that moment and found it funnier to say "yes" than to explain why.

[Imp]

Nah, I just thought it'd be bad to answer that question at that moment and found it funnier to say "yes" than to explain why.

Great to know.  Yeah, my reads were really, really off (I think and feel) this game.  I presume the post limit's part of it.  Everyone felt unlike they usually are, except MS, and MS is a 'who can read?' - something we often talk about... and three of you fellow players were at least implying you were townreading him (you're all psychic and could sense the chosen one?  I need me some of that...).  Was so weird to me, everything about D1 this game.  Freaking twilight zone!

Let's not play 'in the Pine Trees' again, mmmhmmm? 

[Imp]

I mean, +1 play Demonology again.  Just... not within the Twilight Zone as we play it!   

[webadict]

Merciless
The Chosen One has a one-Shot Deify and a one-Shot Kill.
The Chosen One Inspects as Evil and cannot Reveal.

OMG.  Web...

Always has Reveal.
The Chosen One receives powers based on their Prophecy.

Would you have 'revealed' to us that the 'always has reveal' Chosen One did not, this time, have reveal?

Because that... matters.  I'd have struggled badly with that, because that's absolutely true game fact being not true, if you didn't in some way clue us in, if we have a supposedly chosen one who was saying I can't reveal.  Even without a counterclaim... I'd be like "Well, the real chosen one doesn't want to counterclaim you?  But the real chosen one always has reveal...."

How would you have handled that?

The Chosen One would have Reveal.  It would just be Unusable.  Not entirely bastard, just not expected.

The Chosen One would still be able to claim this, as the Chosen One receives the Prophecy.

I would not have publicly revealed that.  I don't see this as necessarily bad.  I think the Chosen One is a bit outside the realms of the other roles, and it's kinda like scum and them have their own mini-battle.  I kinda want more of that battle to happen, but it's a bit harder to get it going.

By the way, was there a deadchat?

There was not.  I was very lazy.

Also, was the post limit detrimental or positive, in your experience?

It was positive because it made everyone else post less :v

So, is there things you liked, didn't like, or would change?

I hoped people would think that, but I was a Disciple with Nullify, Decay, and Frame (!). Pretty bad powerset for a 6-man game, but that's RNG.

webadict: Frame feels all but useless in town hands. Theoretically it protects the target from scum rolecops, but that isn't worth turning them into a miller. If there was a way to change rolename but not alignment -- an option, a single tier that's either-or instead of AND, giving the Evil part an "if you're evil" rider -- then it would be fine.

Good point.  I think Frame being a choice of alignment and/or role would be a fun change.  I did kind of give you some negative Actions, which was a bit intentional as it was some testing, so I hope you didn't mind it too much.

One thing I didn't like when creating the roles was the Always/Sometimes/Rarely mods.  I think just having a pool of available mods would be better.  I will admit that choosing the Ranks was kind of fun, but I'd have to make some changes.  I also probably made the Demon a bit weaker, but I gave some decent prophecies in exchange.  It was always gonna be a bit tough for Crystal, but I think it was very close!

It didn't bother me at all for the same reason my role was so weak: the game didn't go to N2.

I like Always/Sometimes/Rarely as a way of distinguishing between core and periphery abilities of a role, but I can see how it'd feel limiting. Maybe fold together Sometimes and Rarely?

This would bloat role PMs and increase the amount of work you had to do, but it'd be convenient if role PMs listed all tiers of all abilities possessed by the role (or just those the player could access), not just the one tier the player has. It's easy information to find, but the player is definitely going to need it, so why not just give it to them? As an example of what that might look like:

Elephant Parade - Disciple

You are the disciple of the great illusionist, Francesca Lión.  She taught you the importance of misdirection, hiding in plain sight, and the ways to fight that which denies logic.  No one denied that.  Others may not be able to see through the ruses that control others, but you can.

Role:  Disciple
Alignment:  Good
(Auto) Disciple:  Investigate Abilities performed on you fail.
{3AP} (1-Shot, Night) Overload I:  Use another Ability you control as though it were Rank 0.  Destroy that Ability.
{1AP} (Single, Night) Frame I [target]:  Target permanently Inspects as Evil and a Role of your choice.
{3AP} (Night) Nullify I [target]:  Destroy the target’s Auto Abilities.
{2AP} (Night) Decay II [target]:  Downgrade all Actions the target used during this Phase by one Rank.

Spoiler: Other Ability Ranks (click to show/hide)

You may freely use lower-ranked versions of your abilities (e.g., if you have Kill I, you may use Kill II). Abilities like Overload may allow you to use higher-ranked versions of your abilities.

{3AP} (1-Shot, Night) Overload I:  Use another Ability you control as though it were Rank 0.  Destroy that Ability.
{5AP} (1-Shot, Night) Overload 0:  Use every Ability you control as though it were Rank 0.  Destroy those Abilities.

{2AP} (Single, Night) Frame II [target]:  Target permanently Inspects as Evil and a Role of your choice.
{1AP} (Single, Night) Frame I [target]:  Target permanently Inspects as Evil and a Role of your choice.
{0AP} (Single, Night) Frame 0 [t(x2)]: Targets permanently Inspect as Evil and a Role of your choice.

{1AP} (Single, Night) Nullify III [target]:  The target’s Auto Abilities do nothing during this Phase.
{2AP} (Double, Night) Nullify II [target]:  The target’s Auto Abilities are Disabled until the end of the following Night.
{3AP} (Night) Nullify I [target]:  Destroy the target’s Auto Abilities.
{0AP} (Single, Night) Nullify 0 [target]:  Destroy the target’s Auto Abilities.

{1AP} (Night) Decay III [target]:  Downgrade a random Action the target has by one Rank.
{2AP} (Night) Decay II [target]:  Downgrade all Actions the target used during this Phase by one Rank.
{3AP} (Night) Decay I [target]:  Downgrade all Actions the target has by one Rank.
{0AP} (Single, Night) Decay 0 [target]:  Downgrade all Actions the target has by one Rank.  If this Downgrades past the lowest Rank, remove that Action.

Those seem like good ideas.  Also, yeah, I didn't expect this game to make it past Day 2.  It was very much a "let's try a few different things", but nothing too big.

[Imp]

The Chosen One would have Reveal.  It would just be Unusable.  Not entirely bastard, just not expected.

The Chosen One would still be able to claim this, as the Chosen One receives the Prophecy.

I would not have publicly revealed that.  I don't see this as necessarily bad.  I think the Chosen One is a bit outside the realms of the other roles, and it's kinda like scum and them have their own mini-battle.  I kinda want more of that battle to happen, but it's a bit harder to get it going.

Well, we found out this game in the least harmful way possible, I think.

CM, thanks for being kind to us; I would have totally taken the merciless prophecy had I been the chosen evil one

But now we can refer to this in future Demonology games, and have some idea to know how bent the rules might be, at least between chosen and evil chosen.

[Quarque]

Also, was the post limit detrimental or positive, in your experience?

Overwhelmingly positive imho. It makes it so much easier to read back what everyone said with much less irrelevant chaff to wade through.

[TricMagic]

Spoiler: Was not late for tea, thank goodness. No time for deadchat, gotta go. Wonder(ful tea)land. (click to show/hide)

Cyrstal and Elephant ask questions of me, on no, late for tea.
An open party not subject to guests, BYOR I do not detest.
Everyone sleeps, or plots at night, Quarque, what did you do last night?

TricMagic - Summoner

When a talking white rabbit with an oversized hat talks to you, you’re sort of in a bind.  If you ignore it, you’ve accepted that you’re crazy, and if you don’t, you’ve followed it down whatever hole it takes you.  This one taught you the magic of summoning, creating animals from nothing, and it’s been that little act that has kept you and some of your friends alive.  You’re not about to let them finish this fight on their own, are you?

Role:  Summoner
Alignment:  Good
(Auto) Summoner:  Redirect and Bus Abilities performed on you fail.
{2AP} (Single, Night) Bus II [target1][target2]:  Actions with the highest cost performed on the first target are instead performed on the second target and vice versa.
{3AP} (Single, Night, Sync) Redirect III [target1] [target2]:  Change the primary target(s) of the highest AP cost Actions the primary target uses and change it to the secondary target.

Don't really have an opinion, other than AP system being god. Hope you feel better Quarque, just didn't have any info day 1.

[Quarque]

Hope you feel better Quarque, just didn't have any info day 1.

Thank you. You going after me was absolutely fine, what made me feel bad was my own uh
200 iq move

[Elephant Parade]

Thought: As written, Reveal can be taken by Steal, allowing scum to fake a town confirm on themselves and break LYLO. It can also be destroyed by Decay 0.

[webadict]

Thought: As written, Reveal can be taken by Steal, allowing scum to fake a town confirm on themselves and break LYLO. It can also be destroyed by Decay 0.

Reveal should be destroyable and stealable, but I know that it needs a rewrite.  Probably something like "If you are the Chosen One, publicly reveal your Role and gain two votes."

[Elephant Parade]

This is more a funny loophole than a serious problem, but Tinker II doesn't specify any limits on what modifiers can be added to abilities, meaning that you could turn a (One-Shot) into a nonsensical (One-Shot, Two-Shot). If Two-Shot implies that X-shot can exist for any X, then you could make an ability 99-Shot and freely modify it with Tinker I afterward.

[webadict]

This is more a funny loophole than a serious problem, but Tinker II doesn't specify any limits on what modifiers can be added to abilities, meaning that you could turn a (One-Shot) into a nonsensical (One-Shot, Two-Shot). If Two-Shot implies that X-shot can exist for any X, then you could make an ability 99-Shot and freely modify it with Tinker I afterward.

It IS funny, especially because 1-Shot would supercede them.

[Elephant Parade]

Thought: As written, Reveal can be taken by Steal, allowing scum to fake a town confirm on themselves and break LYLO. It can also be destroyed by Decay 0.

Reveal should be destroyable and stealable, but I know that it needs a rewrite.  Probably something like "If you are the Chosen One, publicly reveal your Role and gain two votes."

I think the public reveal should work regardless of role because it's hilarious. Might be too strong in a town Thief's hands, though.