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[joostheger]

Hi all!

Wiki says:
"Caverns are not affected by alignments"
"The reanimating effect extends all the way underground"

• So how is it? Do evil/savage/good creatures show up in underground areas? Are surroundings only applied aboveground?
• If I mod al plant / creature so that it show's up [Underground 1:1] + [Evil], does it ever do show up?
• Why do the reanimating effect extend underground, if the caverns are nog affected by allignment?
• Are the underground area's considered a seperate region?

[A_Curious_Cat]

Hi all!

Wiki says:
"Caverns are not affected by alignments"
"The reanimating effect extends all the way underground"

• So how is it? Do evil/savage/good creatures show up in underground areas? Are surroundings only applied aboveground?
• If I mod al plant / creature so that it show's up [Underground 1:1] + [Evil], does it ever do show up?
• Why do the reanimating effect extend underground, if the caverns are nog affected by allignment?
• Are the underground area's considered a seperate region?

Someone else might be able to correct me, but I think the answers are:

• They don’t.  Yes.
• Not sure, but I’d guess it’ll just ignore the [Evil] tag.  How about you try it and report back?
• I’m not sure.
• According to df-structures, they are.

[joostheger]

Thanks!

So, what would happen, if an underground civ gets an evil ruler? Would evil spread througout the the underground region?

[Starver]

• Why do the reanimating effect extend underground, if the caverns are nog affected by allignment?

I suspect because that'd be too easy to exploit. Just make sure that all (re)killing takes place properly underground, like any decent dwarven dug-out[1] fortress is already skewed towards, and you'd just have "odd guests" (and the perfectly normal issues of immigrants/traders being in trouble if they're not brought inside and turtled ASAP), not an undead cascade with creepy crawling hands/etc like it might be intended.


Maybe I'd have allowed for a (hidden-variable) contact-trace version of reanimation. A chance that anything (initial expedition, migrants, visitors, traders, wildlife, possibly items/liquids) that passed through a reanimating zone carry with them an environmental chance to reanimate which 'decays' (half-life-like) but also propogates (again, a slight chance only), such that a death of anything with the lingering curse still upon them can reanimate. Makes more sense than a hard-bordered "from Circus to sky" column of inevitability, introduces a chance to take precautions but still an off-chance of a Summoning Dark sort of thing possibly biding its time until a suitable opportunity to arise.

Or a proximity thing. A (say) 10-or-more-tile (x,y,z-wise) passing-on-zone from any surface-effected undead that ignores absolutely all barriers for the purposes of 'reinfecting of dead things with undeadness', which adds at least a trivial level of confounding towards a player's inevitable isolationist tactics.

Both the above would also make the boundary fuzzy, but (practically) make it not a world-spreading 'virus' if allowed to do its stuff even over worldgen/beyond-embark world simulations of consequential effects.


...but, in leiu of that, making it a subterrainean penalty at the same degree as it is a surface one adds the known jeopardy without rendering it potentially inconsequential. (If that's how it works, for any given playing style.)


[1] Constructed surface-forts/aboveground buildings (roof above but still "outside") might still be dangerous, but 'dealing with' undeadnicity merely by balancing against dark-adaption and its disadvantages seems a bit lop-sided a way to easily mitigate what is supposed to be a challenge.

[PatrikLundell]

I don't think A_Curious_Cat's statements are correct.

Note that my knowledge is based the pre Premium situation, so things might have changed, but I suspect they haven't.

Each cavern layer has its own biome, but Evilness/Savagery isn't part of a biome but applied on top of it, so if it includes an Evil creature it only shows up in the local biome if the governing world tile is Evil, but won't show up if it's Evil but the critter doesn't belong to the biome. However, there aren't that many things that are labelled as Good/Evil/Savage that can be included in the cavern biomes, but there are some. I believe there are restrictions to Blood Thorn and I believe Evil Eyes are tagged as Evil.
Savagery likewise carries through to the caverns, so you can have two visiting groups of critters in the caverns at the same time instead of the normal single one.

Thus, I would suggest modded critters for subterranean biomes would differ based on Evilness and Savagery if you were to try.

It can also be noted that Evil behaves differently depending on whether the Evil is a result of spreading from e.g. a Tower as opposed to if it was part of world generation. One thing that differs is that vegetation death always is 0 or 100% in spreading Evil, while world gen Evil can have any percentage in the 0-100% range. I don't know if there are other differences between "inherent" and "spreading" Evil.

[Salmeuk]

One thing that differs is that vegetation death always is 0 or 100% in spreading Evil, while world gen Evil can have any percentage in the 0-100% range.

this is interesting, and explains my long standing question regarding why some evil forests are so absolutely DEAD, while others seem to allow for tree growth.

[Urist Mchateselves]

I’m pretty sure that they actually are affected by [SAVAGE] and [GOOD/EVIL] stuff. I’ve only ever seen things like giant cave spiders in savage regions.

[aSpatula66]

They are not affected by good/evil/savage, except for regional interactions like reanimation effects. The max amount of predators and irritation stuff also might be effected but I know it doesn't effect which creatures or plants can appear, trolls, which are evil, are present in any alignment in the caverns, same with gorlaks(good) giant cave swallows(savage) and creeping eyes(evil).

[Urist Mchateselves]

They are not affected by good/evil/savage, except for regional interactions like reanimation effects. The max amount of predators and irritation stuff also might be effected but I know it doesn't effect which creatures or plants can appear, trolls, which are evil, are present in any alignment in the caverns, same with gorlaks(good) giant cave swallows(savage) and creeping eyes(evil).

Maybe I’m just unlucky.