Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[arocoun]

--What effect does weapon skill have on fighting?  More damage?  Better hit chance?  Other effects?

--Is there a skill (like wrestling or something) or attribute (like Strength) that improves unarmed fighting?  Would an unarmed character have much potential to improve (aside from wrestling, which I know for a fact can become very powerful).  I just wonder, because my last character had his body punched into a mass of gore by an ogre, and I'd like to do something like that.  

Plus, it'd be neat if my wrestler could reasonably defend himself against undead/unstrangle-ables, without abusing throwing (which seems broken).

--What other things are known to affect fighting? (I'm betting size and fatigue are among them)

--What affects the speed of wrestling/attacking moves?

--What affects dodging?

Thanks a lot!

[Heliopios]

1. Hit chance, and damage I suppose.

2. You answered your own question, wrestling and strength affect unarmed fighting, but agility also helps dodging

3. Im not sure what youre asking here

4. There is no "speed of attack" only raw speed so far.

5. Agility and wrestling

[arocoun]

Thanks, Heliopios.  I asked 2. because I noticed that I hit a few people with punching once, and wrestling skill didn't increase.  So I wasn't sure of the connection between wrestling and punching.

In 3, I was thinking that size (for example, humans and elves are size 7, dwarves are smaller at size 6) could affected power, dodging, and hit chance; or that being tired could decreas any of those.

As for 4, I've noticed that sometimes when wrestling, I'll sometimes be able to get in 2-3 wrestling moves for every 1 move other characters get, while still having a speed around 1000.

[arocoun]

Aha, found something.  According to the DF Wiki, a creature's size affects the damage it can do.  Which, of course, aids ogres in ripping out my guts.

EDIT:  And, it seems unarmed attacks do raise wrestling, but not if the enemy's prone.  My mistake.

[ May 13, 2007: Message edited by: arocoun ]

[Naminator4]

quote:Originally posted by arocoun:
<STRONG>--What effect does weapon skill have on fighting?  More damage?  Better hit chance?  Other effects?

--Is there a skill (like wrestling or something) or attribute (like Strength) that improves unarmed fighting?  Would an unarmed character have much potential to improve (aside from wrestling, which I know for a fact can become very powerful).  I just wonder, because my last character had his body punched into a mass of gore by an ogre, and I'd like to do something like that.    

Plus, it'd be neat if my wrestler could reasonably defend himself against undead/unstrangle-ables, without abusing throwing (which seems broken).

--What other things are known to affect fighting? (I'm betting size and fatigue are among them)

--What affects the speed of wrestling/attacking moves?

--What affects dodging?

Thanks a lot!</STRONG>

1.  Both the wresting skill and strength improves unarmed combat.  Toughness improves your ability to resist damage and prevent pain.

2.  Size of a monster, does affect it in someway.  When you're a legendary wrestler, you can take down even the tallest monsters.

3.  Both the wrestling skill and agility affects the speed of wrestling.

4.  Agility affects dodging, as well as the combat preference "dodge away".

[ May 14, 2007: Message edited by: Naminator4 ]

[arocoun]

Well, that answered a lot of questions well, especially #2 (nice to know that a wrestler is practical).  Thanks!

[Joseph Miles]

To question number three, thats in the raws. Yes, the higher the number the better it is at combat

[arocoun]

Related question--Does training a skill beyond "Legendary" cause you to become even better at it, or is a skill's power capped at legendary status?

[Heliopios]

quote:Originally posted by arocoun:
<STRONG>Related question--Does training a skill beyond "Legendary" cause you to become even better at it, or is a skill's power capped at legendary status?</STRONG>

I do believe legendary is the maximum efficiency a skill can go, but the experience gain from still using that skill can increase your attributes.

[arocoun]

Did a little test to find out skill levels beyond legendary are useful in themselves (that is, aside from attribute increases).  I mostly wonder because the experience needed to get to the next level keeps going up (2000, 2100, etc, like normal).  If further leveling of a skill doesn't raise the skill level itself, that probably shouldn't be there.  Knowing this kind of stuff can help in strategic use of game time and real time while training, especially for high-level chars.

Perhaps I could have just asked Toady, and made things easier on myself; but I like experimentation anyways.  All I've tested so far is the easiest to raise--throwing.  My record:

code:

 Extremely strong, high master thrower (Skill Lv18), throws rock at:
   gremlin, batters right upper leg
      batters left hand
      batters lower body
   gremlin, batters lower body
      mangles lower body
   named minotaur, bruises lower body
   troglodyte, batters upper body
      breaks right upper arm
   troglodyte, batters left hand
   antman, breaks left upper leg
   large rat, batters head
      breaks head
   naked mole dog, batters left front leg
      batters left rear leg
now agile...
   antman, batters left lower arm
   giant bat, bruise upper body
      bruise head, unconscious
(Lv20)
   troglodyte, battered head (broke brain!)
   troglodyte, battered right lower arm
mighty...
   gremlin, broke left lower leg
      mangled right upper arm
   gremlin, battered right upper arm
      broke head
   antman, broke right lower leg
   naked mole dog, broke tail
      mangled tail
      broke upper body (still standing and fighting, eh?)
      broke lower body (still aimin' to kill me?  that's the spirit!)
      lower body explodes in gore (oh...my...)
   troglodyte, broke right lower arm
      broke left lower leg
   naked mole dog, broke upper body
      battered head
      bruised right front leg
   gremlin, battered head
      battered left hand
      broke upper body
   gremlin, broke left upper arm
      battered head
      battered right lower arm
(Lv21)...
   cheetah, battered head
      battered right front leg
      broke upper body (and spine...that was mean)
(Lv23)...
Ultra-mighty...
   troglodyte, broke left upper arm
      broke right lower arm
   troglodyte, broke right hand
      battered right lower arm
      broke left hand
   gremlin, broke right hand
   giant bat, bruised head
      bruised upper body
      bruised lower body
   troglodyte, broke lower body
      broke upper body
      broke head, *knocked back one square*
   antman, broke an arm
      broke thorax, *knocked back one square*
   large rat, mangled left rear leg
   antman, mangled second left hand
      battered abdomen
   gremlin, battered lower body
   large rat, battered lower body
      broke left front leg
   naked mole dog, battered head, broke brain
   antman, broke head, *knocked back two spaces*
   giant bat, did nothing
(Lv27)...
   large rat, lower body mangled, *knocked into wall behind*
   naked mole dog, broke right rear foot
      broke left rear foot
   large rat, battered upper body
      battered left front leg
      broke left rear leg
   large rat, broke head
   gremlin, battered lower body
      broke upper body, *knocked two spaces back*
   gremlin, battered left hand
      broke upper body
   antman, broke an arm
      broke a leg
      broke an arm
   naked mole dog, broke upper body, *propelled away*
   large rat, broke leg
   gremlin, mangled head
very agile...
   named minotaur, broke left foot
      while grounded, made lower body explode in gore, *PROPELLED 8 SPACES BACK*
(Lv28)
   troglodyte, battered left hand
      broke right hand
      broke left lower leg
   giant bat, bruised upper body
      battered lower body
      battered left rear leg
      broke lower body
   large rat, broke right rear foot
      broke right front foot
   gremlin, battered right hand
      broke left lower leg
   troglodyte, battered upper body
      broke lower body, *slammed into wall behind* 

I mostly didn't keep track of damage done to prone enemies, because the damage done to them seems different (significantly higher) than normal damage.  It's really funny; you throw rocks at grounded enemies, and they start exploding and flying everywhere!

The results are somewhat ambiguous.  I mean, there SEEMED to be better damage at skill level 27 than skill level 23 (while attributes stayed the same).  Basic math says damage could be 27/23 = 17% better, and it felt that way.  But a hypothetical 17% difference is too statistically insignificant to prove or disprove without solid numbers (eg. "you do 4 damage to the giant bat's leg").

I'm also guessing that agility could possibly, maybe help throwing damage, but I'm by no means sure.

All that testing, no sure conclusion...how sad.  At least I got to make a mythical creature explode!  Game of catch, anyone?  

[ May 16, 2007: Message edited by: arocoun ]

[arocoun]

Just want to confirm that post-legendary ambushing skill does further increase sneaking speed.

[Lavastine]

quote:The results are somewhat ambiguous. I mean, there SEEMED to be better damage at skill level 27 than skill level 23 (while attributes stayed the same). Basic math says damage could be 27/23 = 17% better, and it felt that way. But a hypothetical 17% difference is too statistically insignificant to prove or disprove without solid numbers (eg. "you do 4 damage to the giant bat's leg").

Just as a little help here, you could figure out if it was 17percent or whatnot higher. What you need to do is pick 2 skill levels, do about 1000 different attacks(or any number higher than 200, so you have a good sample size, though 1000 would be much better)with each skill level. Then count the number of bashed, bruised, mangled, severed, pierced, etc... and then assuming you know which order they go from least to most damaging you could just assign them values from 1(being least) to 10 or whatever(not sure how many there different wound verbs there actually are) then just take an average for both skills and see which one is higher, and by how much.

[arocoun]

Great idea on paper, but tedious to the point of causing nausea.  Considering different monsters have different defense and health stats, you'd have to attack monsters of the same or similar types, rather than just any you want.  Plus, you'd have to save scum to avoid accidentally leveling a skill.  I'm too lazy for that!

This is why I've always disliked statistics.  

[Exasperation]

quote:Originally posted by arocoun:
<STRONG>Just want to confirm that post-legendary ambushing skill does further increase sneaking speed.</STRONG>

To a point, anyway.  Around 5 levels (I forget exactly how many) past legendary, your sneak speed hits 100% of your normal speed, and stops increasing with experience.  I don't know if additional levels make you harder to spot, though.

[ColonelTEE3]

--What effect does weapon skill have on fighting? More damage? Better hit chance? Other effects?

1. Weapon skill enables you to make physical contact with your opponent, instead of your attack "glancing off". Your attacks are also more potent, a novice swordsman might "break" an arm with his sword, whereas a legendary swordsman would most likely cut it off.

--Is there a skill (like wrestling or something) or attribute (like Strength) that improves unarmed fighting? Would an unarmed character have much potential to improve (aside from wrestling, which I know for a fact can become very powerful). I
just wonder, because my last character had his body punched into a mass of gore by an ogre, and I'd like to do something like that.
2. Yes, wrestling helps you in unarmed combat but its much more useful than that. Training wrestling makes you more agile, and able to evade and dodge more melee and missile attacks. I don't think any adventurers have the strength (even at super strength) to crush someones head in. They mostly do boxing-esque attacks or wrestling if you choose to. Unarmed adventurers who train wrestling don't necesarily have more potential, everyone has equal potential, but a wrestler is dependant only upon his own body instead of bows arrows or swords.

--What other things are known to affect fighting? (I'm betting size and fatigue are among them)

Size doesn't play much of a role, except that a swordsman will have a long fight against a giant cave spider because he will be busy hacking off all of its many limbs. But its not like dwarves are less likely to be hurt since they are small. Fatigue does have a role in combat. If you get "tired", escape combat a.s.a.p. before you get too tired to escape at all. If you get exhausted you might fall unconcious and even uber-weak opponents will have enough time to gang bang you. Also make sure to have points in armor and shield use which can be trained by letting skeletons and zombies beat you up.

--What affects the speed of wrestling/attacking moves?

Agility affects your over all speed. Your weight too is important. Make sure to watch how much you weigh, if your too slow, it will affect you in battle greatly.

--What affects dodging?

Wrestling and agility improve dodging attacks and arrows. Or lackthereof may mean you don't dodge anything.