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[Thorfinn]

I'm having trouble walling in an outside area when it changes Z. Flat is easy -- either a jutting floor tile on top of the wall, or two wall tiles, e.g.,

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But when the terrain drops, how can I handle that transition? I thought I had it pegged by just running a couple tiles at the higher elevation by adding an extra block to the base of the lower wall, then stepping down to the new elevation. Not even sure how to depict that -- the wall section pictured above stays at the Z of the higher terrain for 2 tiles, then the whole thing shifts down to the lower terrain. Climbers got through. I added an extra block to the rampart to get rid of a potential diagonal move, to no avail. It was running too fast for me to see the path he took, but he appeared on my ramparts and jumped down to attack my farmers. Is it possible for climbers to move horizontally? Could he have been holding onto the underside of the upper level rampart, then climbed laterally onto the side of the lower rampart, then up onto it?

The only way I've been able to stop whatever that climber is doing is to make the top of the entire wall the same Z, which sometimes entails walls 15 or more Z high if I have a hilly embark. Might as well just roof everything over.

Thanks!

[Salmeuk]

Is it possible for climbers to move horizontally?

this is true sadly. you are correct that the only foolproof way is to make the entire fortification level at the top. my strategy is to dig down nearby surfaces higher than my walls, out to about 4 or 5 tiles. Technically they can shoot down onto the ramparts, and even jump.. but I have never seen creatures jump further than 2 or 3 tiles.

or just add traps, or flooding systems, or magma, or a nice roof, or...

[Thorfinn]

Thanks!

I was hoping that was not the case. In the past, I've always just bridged/roofed it over and not cared whether foes were running around on top. Once light, always light, so surface crops were fine, and I avoided evil weather. I was just inspired to try something different.

Guess it's back to the boring old tried and true.

[anewaname]

The reason they climb over a wall in the first place is because they saw one of your dwarfs or animals over the wall, that is when they decided to stop walking and try climbing. Because of this, if you use miners to flatten the nearby hill (within about 20 tiles of your wall) and clear the trees, that will remove any place they can see from, but flyers will always be a problem.

[jipehog]

I am not sure I understand, does this help: https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Climber#Climbing_safety

The usual trick is to build a wall with ledge all across. This should solve the climber problem and more importantly prevent your marks dwarves charging over the walls. You can also make it double wall to prevent flyers.

Keep in mind this complicates any top construction projects, if you don't want to get swamped slowly plan your expansion and keep fall back defenses until you make sure it is fool proof.

[Thorfinn]

@anewaname, unfortunately, if you build onto a hillside, trying to follow terrain, you will generally be able to see guys farming on the hillside over the lower walls. I was trying to avoid having to build Hoover Dam on the lower side of my fort. I'm going to try again and see if maybe there's a way I can interrupt the climbable route using fortifications. If not, back to roofs.

@jipehog, thanks. I already knew that, though. The wiki doesn't cover the situation of the top layer of the wall changing Z, and I was just wondering if anyone had figured out a workaround that didn't make it onto the wiki. It just always seemed a little "cheaty" to roof over my fields so they were no longer open to rain and sun.

[Ziusudra]

Although ... that page does say:

Safe miminalist bars:

z+2
z+1   ‼_
z+0→→g█_

Because the bar is a building, it has no grabbable surface area on the side to lift one up by, though beware enemy archers.

I would think bars would also prevent them from climbing horizontally.

So, looking at the face of the wall, neither goblin should be able to climb left or any higher up:

   ___
  _‼g█
__‼g██
██████

Though they might be able to jump through them, and I don't know if having the bars be under the overhang or in the same plane as the wall would make a difference.

Maybe two bars would prevent jumping?

   ____
  _‼‼g█
__‼‼g██
███████

[Thorfinn]

Good thought, @Ziusudra. If my test of fortifications doesn't work (the same design you suggest but with fortifications) I'll try that. Should be easy to switch. I don't quite have it set up yet, and then it's just a wait for climbers. If the forts don't stop them, I'll reload the save, swap in bars, and see.