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[Doomblade187]

yes the "very careful" airstrikes that destroy lebanese government buildings.

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/israeli-strike-rocks-beirut-suburbs-044418689.html

this is actually from last week i think so not new!

First, yes it is a very careful limited precise strike targeting a politically important Hezbollah member and destroying their C&C center. Good job!

Second, I was talking about the earlier period, before the pagers explosions. Israel did almost nothing for a year, now there is a war and Hezbollah is getting destroyed, suffering defeat after defeat. I am a bit disappointed that Lebanese do not join and don't seize the opportunity to kick those out of the country but... world isn't perfect.


BTW, Israel has the ability to destroy ALL government buildings in Lebanon in a matter of days.

Yeahhhhh i'm going to need a source on the emergency city council being "oops all terrorists".

Like, you do know that there's a large christian plurality in Lebanon, right? It's not just "Hezbollah, the country." just like we're not one political party.

[Strongpoint]

Yeahhhhh i'm going to need a source on the emergency city council being "oops all terrorists".

Like, you do know that there's a large christian plurality in Lebanon, right? It's not just "Hezbollah, the country." just like we're not one political party.

I don't know why the hell I assume that the mayor and the council of a Shiite-majority city are very likely to be Hezbollah pawns or, at the very least, friendly to it...
Sadly, my Google-fu failed to find the mayor's biography but I can bet that he was a corrupt piece of crap linked to Hezbollah. It is how stuff works in mafia or terrorist infested areas - random people don't become mayors!. Neither do they become officials of any other kind.


And yes, I know that Lebanon has a lot of Christians, a lot of which are quietly celebrating each and every strike against Hezbollah. I also hope that Lebanese people (not only Christians) won't miss their chance and join Israel in the noble cause of destroying Hezbollah who effectively serve as an occupying power backed by Iran.

[StrawBarrel]

This I suspect is where I disagree. Israel isn't holding back, Israel is going all out.It isn't working. I'm not disagreeing for ideological reasons, though they do exist. I'm suggesting Israel is going all out, .... and it's not actually working?

They didn't even strike Iran once.

Not surprising. Iran is a bigger military force than Israel, not necessarily stronger but definitely bigger.

They did almost nothing against Lebanon for a year and even now it is a minor invasion with quite careful airstrikes. They don't send their Navy and Airforce to Yemen to rain death and deblockade shipping. Of course, they are holding back their military might. Israel is very far from being mobilized and in true war mode.

Not surprising. Last time Israel fought with Lebanon a lot of Israelis died. Israel's government has chosen a path that achieves nothing, outside of other countries/regions taking the casualties.

All they are doing is making sure the people doing the dying aren't from Israel. While achieving nothing real.

What part of this region, has become less full of terroists that hate Israel?
What has been done to harm any state actor who wants to support terroists in the region?
What has actually been achieved, if you aren't an Israeli politician trying to hold on to your job?

Yeah I think you make a good point, wobbly, on how Israel's government has chosen a pointless path.

-----------
Children wounded in Gaza as Israel bombs area sheltering displaced families
July 4, 2024
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCpgo9TlXUo&rco=1
NBC News mirror: https://www.nbcnews.com/video/children-wounded-in-gaza-as-israel-bombs-area-sheltering-displaced-families-214237765852

An NBC News camera crew was on the scene in Khan Younis when Israeli missiles struck near a school being used as a shelter by displaced Palestinian families. Children ran screaming from the area. “There was no warning,” said several witnesses.

EDIT: My response the bet

Yeahhhhh i'm going to need a source on the emergency city council being "oops all terrorists".

Like, you do know that there's a large christian plurality in Lebanon, right? It's not just "Hezbollah, the country." just like we're not one political party.

I don't know why the hell I assume that the mayor and the council of a Shiite-majority city are very likely to be Hezbollah pawns or, at the very least, friendly to it...
Sadly, my Google-fu failed to find the mayor's biography but I can bet that he was a corrupt piece of crap linked to Hezbollah. It is how stuff works in mafia or terrorist infested areas - random people don't become mayors!. Neither do they become officials of any other kind.


And yes, I know that Lebanon has a lot of Christians, a lot of which are quietly celebrating each and every strike against Hezbollah. I also hope that Lebanese people (not only Christians) won't miss their chance and join Israel in the noble cause of destroying Hezbollah who effectively serve as an occupying power backed by Iran.

Facts do not care about your feelings. Your “bet” is not evidence. It is also unbecoming of you, Strongpoint, to disparage the people who were recently killed by the IDF.

According the the article linked earlier by Doomblade187:

The Israelis "intentionally targeted a meeting of the municipal council to discuss the city's service and relief situation" to aid people displaced by the Israeli campaign, caretaker Prime Minister Najib Mikati said.

Israel first issued an evacuation notice for Nabatieh, a city of tens of thousands of people, on Oct. 3. At the time, the city's Mayor Ahmed Kahil told Reuters he would not leave.

As well as this article from BBC:

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy43z81nnvlo
Mayor and 15 others killed in Israeli strike on Lebanon council meeting
Joel Gunter

The UN’s special coordinator for Lebanon has criticised Israel after air strikes on municipal buildings in the southern city of Nabatieh killed the mayor and 15 other people.
Jeanine Hennis-Plasschaert called the killing of mayor Ahmad Kahil “alarming” and said any violations of international humanitarian law were “completely unacceptable”.
At least five of those killed in Wednesday's strike were municipal staff co-ordinating aid for civilians remaining in the area, Nabatiyeh Governor Howaida Turk told the BBC.
Lebanon’s caretaker prime minister, Najib Mikati condemned the attack, saying it had "intentionally" targeted a council meeting.
The attack was the most significant against a Lebanese state building since the latest escalation in fighting, which began about two weeks ago, and has raised concerns about the safety of the country’s state infrastructure.

It seems like the people who were killed, including mayor Ahmad Kahil, were working to help the people of their community. These are the facts. In my opinion facts are stronger than bets.

[Strongpoint]

It seems like the people who were killed, including mayor Ahmad Kahil, were working to help the people of their community. These are the facts.

No, these are not facts. These are statements of the Lebanese (and Hezbollah) side. They wouldn't say - "Hezbollah members planned how to counter the Israeli attack in the safety of a civilian building", wouldn't they? So how can we know? Your assumptions aren't better than mine. We can only make educated guesses.

What next? Start asking Russians about events of the Russian-Ukrainian war and treat their words as facts?

____________________________________

Meanwhile, Turkey bombs Kurdish targets in Syria and Iraq. Who wanna bet that the UN, various minor NGOs, and the media will not pay much attention to it?

[StrawBarrel]

2 Israeli reservists interviewed by Deutsche Welle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9LeQWVDYRE
The Israeli reservists refusing to return to fight in Gaza | DW News
Deutsche Welle
Sep 11, 2024

Thousands of Israeli reservists were called up to fight in Gaza after the October 7 Hamas terrorist attacks. In May, 42 of them wrote an open letter refusing to take up arms again. Yuval Green and Michael Ofer Ziv told DW why.

...that I rather sit in jail than do whatever we did there.

It is good to see Green and Ofer Ziv criticize the IDF and share their experience of the conflict. Hopefully those two continue their work criticizing the IDF, calling for a ceasefire, and a return of hostages from captivity.

Tyre attacked by the Israeli military
https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/10/1156036
Civilians and peacekeepers at risk, amid escalating Lebanon conflict
23 October 2024

Widening ‘evacuation’ orders
About a quarter of Lebanon’s total territory remains under Israeli military evacuation orders, with fresh displacement notice designating a large area within the city of Tyre in southern Lebanon, inside the area of operations of the UN Interim Force in Lebanon (UNIFIL).
Tyre was then subsequently hit by numerous airstrikes.
Reportedly founded by the Phoenicians in 2750 BC, the city is considered to be “directly associated with several stages in the history of humanity” according to the UN Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO).

===================================================
First article: https://ca.news.yahoo.com/israeli-strike-rocks-beirut-suburbs-044418689.html
Second article: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy43z81nnvlo
1. The first article is from Reuters, which has their headquarters in the UK.

Reporting by Laila Bassam and Timour Azhar in Beirut, Humeyra Pamuk in Washington and Andrew Gray in Brussels and John Irish in Paris; Writing by Michael Georgy, Peter Graff and Deepa Babington; Editing by Raju Gopalakrishnan, Sharon Singleton, Ros Russell, Gareth Jones and Diane Craft

This is the team that worked on the article. I do not see Hezbollah in this article.
2. The 2nd article is from British Broadcasting Corporation, which is also from the UK.
This is the author of the BBC article: https://muckrack.com/joelmgunter. Once again there is no Hezbollah to be found here.
3. The BBC article quotes Jeanine Hennis-Plasschaert who appears to be Dutch. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeanine_Hennis-Plasschaert)
4. I will decline to bet with you at this time.
5. In my opinion, it is disrespectful of you to continue to fan-fiction these deceased people as "Hezbollah members planned how to counter the Israeli attack in the safety of a civilian building". I think it is normally looked down upon to call people terrorists with no evidence.
6. In my previous forum post: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=182876.msg8559089#msg8559089
I did present facts. Those news articles contain facts.

[Strongpoint]

You must be kidding me...

1. The first article is from Reuters, which has their headquarters in the UK.

Reuters reported that the mayor and 16 more are killed. Then it quoted various people. It doesn't disprove my hypothesis that the mayor and those 16 are Hezbollah members\allies

The 2nd article is from British Broadcasting Corporation, which is also from the UK.

Same as above. They report a mix of facts and statements.

3. The BBC article quotes Jeanine Hennis-Plasschaert who appears to be Dutch.

Jeanine Hennis-Plasschaert called the killing of mayor Ahmad Kahil “alarming” and said any violations of international humanitarian law were “completely unacceptable”

Again, did I reject the fact that mayor was killed? "Alarming" and "completely unacceptable" are not facts. Those are opinions.

The most important part is that statements are still statements be it from Hezbollah, Lebanon, European politicians, UN, Israel, Russia, Pope or whoever. Don't call statements from sources you like facts.

5. In my opinion, it is disrespectful of you to continue to fan-fiction these deceased people as "Hezbollah members planned how to counter the Israeli attack in the safety of a civilian building". I think it is normally looked down upon to call people terrorists with no evidence.

Presumption of innocence is a legal principle for courts not for personal opinions. One has all the right to assume someone's guilt based on available information and express their opinion - it is called free speech. As I said before - in corrupted partially (or non) democratic countries, mayors are rarely not-affilated with the source of corruption. It is not how the world works.

[Doomblade187]

edit: not going to engage.