Hi Everyone,
It's been a while since I found about DF, read the wiki, the forums, etc. But play-wise I think I haven't accrued more than 8-10h. But even though I'm a noob. I've been thinking of something for the past week or two.
What if we could use some neat mechanics already implemented into DF to increase the complexity of brewing and make it more realistic?
Before posting here I did some search and found nothing similar to what I'll describe below. Most suggestions to make brewing more realistic involved aging (which I didn't even consider before the searches, but will try to think of something regarding that later).
So, without stretching it any further... Here's what I've thought of (and would like some help/pointers to implement).
For starters, IRL brewing and distillation are separate processes. And even though brewing might take only a few hours of labor to produce wort. It takes considerable time to ferment the wort to produce alcohol. And that my fellow dwarves, is the issue I wish to tackle.
What I've come up to keep things as simple as possible while trying to increase realism is what I’d call: A (Basic) Realistic Brewer's Mod
For starters we’d Break the brewing process into 2 separate steps (Making Wort, Fermentation). And having a 3rd step for distilling.
Each step will happen in a specific building/workshop
Brewery [2x2 workshop]
Made from: log + barrel/large pot (large liquid container) + bucket (?)
This shop turns fruit/grains into wort (maybe using the current reactions, but producing wort stacks instead of booze)
Additionally reactions would require 1unit of [Water] per unit of fruit/grain
Needs 1 barrel (for transportation to the next step)
The standard Make Wort reaction would be something along the lines of:
Reagent A: Stack of [Grain/Fruit] with [X] units
Reagent B: [X] units of water
Reagent C: [Large Liquid Container]
Product: [Large Liquid Container] containing a Stack of [X] units of [Quality]([Season][Year], optional) [Grain/Fruit] Wort
Considerations about wort making:
* Adding [Water] to the reaction serves no practical purpose in this setup other than to make the process look more realistic in some instances. But this paves the way for further modeling water quality interference into wort-making. Water does not increase the final product's stack size due to "process losses".
* Adding [Quality] to wort so desperate dwarves may get "less unhappy" thoughts should they decide to drink wort instead of Water.
* Naming the Wort with [season] and [year] serves no purpose other than making it look cooler. And paving the way for further modding vintages and aging.
* [Fuel] was not added to this step because it's possible to make several types of wines by just crushing fruits without using heat to sterilize it afterwards. The risks of choosing to do so could be later incorporated into this. (Yes, I know you could also remove water then, call me a hypocrite but please bear with me for a while longer).
So, now our Dwarves can make some non-alcoholic, drinkable [Wort] stacks, time to do the magic of fermentation and add alcohol to that! To do so, I envisioned a new workshop
Fermenter [1x1 workshop/construction]
Made from:barrel/pot
Turns wort into wine/beer in 14days
For the Fermentation process there would take 2 jobs/reactions
1st- Dwarves fill the Fermenter with a stack of [Wort] freeing the barrel from the last step.
2- 14days after loading the fermenter the [Wort] is changed into [Beer/Wine] and is ready to be Harvested into a [Large Liquid Container].
Considerations about wort making:
* The 2 jobs/steps of fermentation would serve to make the process longer in-game (and more realistic) while not keeping dwarves stuck for 15 game days brewing a single stack of alcohol.
* This process feels somewhat similar to how Hives produce Honey. So maybe use those as a scaffold? Would also pave the way to some improvements later.
Well, now our Dwarves can already get drunk, but, why stop there? Why not make alcohol stronger and increase its value? Time to take our booze to:
Still [2x2 from]
Made from: [metal large liquid container] (because distilling needs heat, and applying heat to rock or wood doesn't work that well)
-Turns 1 wine stack into spirits stack
-Turns 2 wine stacks into blended spirits stack
-Turns 3 wine stacks into triple blended spirits stack
Those reactions would work like kitchen reactions taking [1-3] stacks of beer/wine and turn those into [quality] ([Season][Year], optional) [biggest stack alcohol name][spirits/blended spirits/triple blended spirits]
Blended/Triple Blended would also free up barrels while increasing high value alcohol stacks.
Distilling considerations:
* At first it would not require [Fuel] for 3 reasons;1- Keeping it simple 2- It currently doesn't require fuel to make alcohol in DF; 2- [Coal] in DF as it is seems as overkill energy-wise to be used here, so we'll deal with that later.
* At first, distilling would not reduce the amount of alcohol from the original stacks.
* Distilling would serve initially to reward Dwarves for the extra work with higher value (and happier thoughts) vs beer/wines. And to free up barrels.
After the basic implementations, which should increase DF difficulty by a bit, there are a few "upgrades" that I have in mind to increase realism and difficulty a little further. I'll split those below according to theme/categories.
Wine x Spirits Distinction
So here’s a few thoughts on how to differentiate Beers/Wines from Spirits. I think those can be done mainly by adding tags in the raws.
* Wines have around 11~13%(v/v) of alcohol, so they aren't flammable. For simplicity’s sake, let’s just say all alcohol made from wort fits this range, round it a nice 10.
* Spirits are usually stronger ranging from 20%(v/v) for Liqueurs to 40%sh (v/v) in the case of Vodka,Wiskey,Tequila and others can be even stronger (anyone ever tasted absinthe at 80-90%, neat?). So let’s again for simplicity’s sake assume that all alcohol made at a still has a nice round 40%, and are all flammable!
* I have currently no Idea how Alcohol poisoning or dependency works (neither does the wiki, just checked while writing). But wines should have ¼ of the potency of spirits for those matters. (values wise i’d say start testing just multiplying spirits by 4; or ½ for wines and 2x for spirits if too many die from drinking spirits)
Water
So here’s a few thoughts on how water quality should influence brewing and fermentation jobs. No idea if those can be done through reactions or if they’d require scripts though.
* Bad water should have a chance to spoil a whole wort stack during fermentation.
* Chances should be based on water quality and vary a lot from stagnant/muddy to fresh/clean.
* Spoil chances should not be 0% for clean water by itself (more later on skills)
Fuel
So, I said earlier that [Coal] seemed like a little too much energy-wise for brewing. So in order to add a little more flavour and realism into the game, why not create a new reaction for [Firewood]?
* To do that we can have a carpenter split 1 wood [log] or a [wooden block] into a stack of 10~20 [Firewood]
* Another custom reaction could be added for converting the same amount of [Firewood] into [Coal]
* [Firewood] could also be gathered from trees (From parts that don’t generate [Logs]). But i’ll get into that into a different thread.
* Stills consume 1un of [Firewood] per Stack of alcohol being distilled. Or maybe per unit of alcohol?
* Stills cannot be magma powered (too hot).
* Elves are offended if traded spirits made from non-grown [Firewood] for added flavour and Elf pissing.
Methanol
Since we’re talking Stills and Fuel, why not move on the the marvels of Methanol and it’s toxic properties for added !!FUN!! While distilling your alcohol? I believe that can be done through a new [Syndrome]. However I’m not certain how you could determine only some and not all your booze gets it.
* Mild/common cases of Methanol ingestion can cause [Damage to Eyes], and cases leading to [Blindness] are not uncommon.
* More acute/serious cases can lead to [Damage to Brain] causing !!FUN!! [Death].
* Dwarves and Goblins are highly resistant. Maybe Goblins should be even more resistant [x2] than Dwarves[1,5].
* Humans are affected normally [x1] and Elves are very susceptible [x0,5 / x0,75?]
* Try to use the same mechanisms from alcohol poisoning for resistance/susceptibility.
Aging
Not my main inspiration/concern when I thought about or started writing all of this nearly a week ago, but since so many mentioned it in other discussions, here it goes, another construction for a final step/process:
Aging Rack [1x1 workshop/construction]
Made from: 1 [construction material]
1st- Dwarves load the Rack with an alcohol container (either Wine/Spirit).
2- The value of the Wine/Spirit being aged but isn’t displayed until it’s harvested into a[Large Liquid Container].
Aging considerations:
* Value increases slowly but cumulatively, not additively by a %. Calculation is done once at harvest [X% ^ #weeks]. Suggested initial values 0,2~0,25%/week -> aprox. 10~14%/year
* There’s a small % chance you’ll lose a stack every week. But you won’t know until you open/harvest that alcohol. Repeat [#weeks] rolls for losing 1 unit. Suggested initial values 0,1~0,15% -> aprox 5~8%/year
* You can’t age a Beer/Wine that’s already been aged.
* You can age a Spirit made from aged Beer/Wine.
* I think that due to the kind of Math involved here it’d require scripts to do it.
Yeast
As we go further and further away from keeping things truly simple. Why not just go nuts and try tointroduce some mechanics related to Yeast!? After all, what would fermentation be without our little friends? (Here’s a shout to all the Pro Brewers, Home Brewers and peeps who work with Fermentation processes in general out there).
To do so, we would need a complete overhaul of the Fermenter Workshop taking and expanding features from Hives, which I believe would require some heavy scripting.
* For starters, Fermenters would start keeping track of Yeast counts as Hives do with bees.
* Wort could be treated as a new creature/vermin born wounded and can be infected by water? (Beer/Wine rots if it dies. Becomes Beer/Wine by hatching/Growing into adulthood on Fermenters?)
* Alternatively, Wort is just a non-alcoholic drink. But it rots when all the Yeast in a Fermenter dies [0 count] (The more I think about it, the more I like this option better).
* Doesn't require the player to find Yeast colony from the map. (Brewery Generates 1un Yeast + 1un Wort from reaction to simulate spontaneous fermentations, or just adding to the count in the fermenter).
* Dry fermenters start losing yeast count
* Bad water from wort kills yeast (infeccion)
* Fermentation times vary according to yeast count. (from 1week up to 3-4months. Added realism and difficulty).
* Transfer Yeast between Fermenters to speed things up. Should not be without losses on the receiving end.
* "Harvesting" Beer/Wine reduces the Yeast count a little.
* New cookable (low value)glob Gravy is created as a by-product of Harvesting Wine/Yeast. Also allow Harvesting Dry Fermenters to produce Gravy.
Skills
Finally, some suggestions about splitting brewing into 2 different (still non-moodable) skills and how they might influence and interact with alcohol production and the above suggestions.
Brew/Fermentation Skill
* Increases Wort quality modifiers
* Gains XP making wort (1x X) (I don’t know what’s the “regular” amount of XP/job)
* Gains little XP transferring Yeast between Fermenters (0,5x X)
* Gains very little XP Harvesting Yeast/Beer/Wine (0,25x X)
* Reduces Wort infection levels when making it(improves water quality/raw chances)
* Reduces Wort stack sizes as it goes up (up to 10~20% due to more strict selection of good x bad fruit/grains)
* Reduces Yeast losses during Harvest/Transfer
* Doesn't influence brewing or fermentation times (not directly at least)
Distill Skill
* Gains xp making spirits
* Doesn't influence distilling times
* Increases spirits quality modifiers
* Reduces distilling losses (Reduces stack size by 10~50% depending on Skill)
* Reduces [methanol syndrome] levels/occurence
So, that’s it guys… Thank you for reading this far. Any and all kind of help/advice/input/criticism is appreciated.
Maybe i’ll get it done by Christmas (The basics at least) or by the end of the next year.
Maybe many will flock and embrace brewing as a community project.
Maybe The Great Toady One Himself will take notice and implement those officially after he’s done with the Arena in the Premium version (One can dream right?)
Anyways, it feels good to get it all out there. Whatever may come of it. (Now into making that other more elvish thread about Wood)
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Topic: How to increase brewing complexity? [Help?] (Read 735 times)