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[Fikilili]

Long time no see, huh? I'll make sure that my English isn't as bad as it usually is.

I've been reading and working a lot more, the time I spend on Dwarf Fortress and modding it shrinks shorter, but not because of a general disinterest, but more likely because I don't have as much as I used to. To be frank, I wish I was as dedicated as the lots of you around here, or able to come up with interesting subject matters that question the very nature of the game and the way we percieve world cultures and the likes.
I'm not exactly the best person to make suggestions, I'm one of those people who would cram in as much features as possible without putting much of a thought.

The reason why I wanted to make this thread is because I felt like DF tried to mimick a specific aspect of fantasy, one of its earlier itterations from the 70s to the 80s, with the advent of Fantasy films, DnD and Warhammer, plus the still growing fandom of LOTR and the many authors creating universes left and right. And all of that contributed to the overall fantasy fandom that developed jewels like Nethack, Rogue and DCSS. We can't deny that Dwarf Fortress has some kind of a campy atmosphere, it's reknown grimdarkness being the product of how the AI handles generated worlds and creatures. The game imitates an idea of fantasy, it was always defined as a "generic fantasy universe simulator where you play dwarves", but also some kind of a multi-layered experience with the creatures of the genre we've come to develop over the years.
With time passing, the game developped its own identity. Well, I'm not saying that it didn't had one at first, but throughout the years, the shared experiences of every players made us realize the little similarities between each generated worlds. Elves being cannibals, Dwarves relying on alcohol to not succomb to depression or enter a state of unstoppable rage, Goblins being a considerable menace and not just the usual subordinates to Orcs, Elephants being more dangerous than dragons, and so on and so forth. Despite its obvious inspirations from a lot of fantasy media, DF created its own semi-universe, with its own little quirks.

And I've been wondering where does DF stand now? Did it really become its own thing or will  it still implement new tropes and elements of fantasy? Now that the genre changed drastically, compared to its many iterations that existed back when DF was concieved. Shall we see new races and creatures added to the game, or should leave all of that for mods and shift our attention to calibrating the game and polishing it in its current state?

[Salmeuk]

Df is a materialist simulation. Even down to the individual thoughts of dwarves, there are values for every attribute present in the universe. I think this fact is why many comparisons to other media fail. DF is essentially a combination of the imagined fantasys of the 70's and 80's (which were themselves filtered interpretations of LOTR-esque fantasy of the early 20th century, which were themselves filtered interpretations of the oral traditions of Germanic people) filtered through a brilliant and mathematical mind.

DF is a product of its time, in that glorious early-2000's era of accessible consumer electronics, and specifically affordable CPUs. For DF would not exist if not for the audience's ability to play it! And I would argue this depth of simulation would not exist (in a consumer-facing sense) if the idea for DF had come about two decades earlier.

DF is tough to talk about now. It almost feels like its heyday came and went with the early 2010's, when it became a part of the internet's meme culture through boatmurdered and 4chan /v/, and other forums. That was the time I remember the forums most active, with all kinds of modded dreams appearing. Now, even beyond the walls of Bay12, the excitement surrounding DF seems to be waning. Ultimately, though, I think there are a huge number of fans, just very little to talk about at the moment between updates. That's how this game has always worked - lulls, and then flashes of community excitement.

I think you made an interesting point about how, nowadays, this older style of goblins, elves, etc is kind of passe. Or extremely passe, depending on who you talk to. I would agree that the things DF has become known for, like the strange bugs or the hyper-violence or the strange machinations of the A.I., almost came about accidentally through Tarn's attempt to simulate his interpreted fantasy. The quirks are there, but more interesting are all the ways these oddities interact. And that is entirely thanks to the dedication to simulation present in the dev.

So, fantasy made real via the digital, with all the associated philosophical implications. . I don't think this perspective is explored enough in our community.

Finally, to make some really broad claims, DF will ultimately become a well-known platform for fantasy modification. Which it already is. But with Steam and (hopefully) changes to the raw format of data, and the opening of more of the source code, DF really lays the foundations for all kinds of wonderful storytelling. IMO modification of DF is like creating your own story generator; you pick the actors, you change the attributes of the world, then you hit play. So anything to make this process easier will only further the beauty that is DF.

And, if not, if DF slowly tumbles into obscurity, it has already inspired hundreds of other game devs to focus on simulation and depth. Regardless of the present veneer of elves and gobbos, there is a ridiculous powerful engine under the hood, so to speak, ready for exploitation by countless creatives. And that's something lovely, no?







 

[Maloy]

For sure it's own thing at least so far as any fantasy universe can be since we're all liberally borrowing from Tolkein who absolutely did wonderful things with mythology

But the brutality and the randomness of the dwarf fortress world is its own signature thing

goblins not being little green weaklings, but a serious potentially world ending threat
super powered necromancers making demons as well as superhuman servants
Elves that use only grown food and are cannibalistic

Definitely not the first universe to have any of these ideas, but its implemented in such a unique and fun way
I think dwarf fortress itself will continue to inspire writers, game designers, and more in other worlds that are created. I love seeing references to the game elsewhere

[Red Diamond]

Dwarf Fortress as a world setting is almost entirely defined by it's game's incompleteness.  Can't say nothing about it because that isn't how it's going to end up.

[klefenz]

I think most of the character comes from the bugs or unintended features.
*Obsession with retrieving socks
*Deadly carp
*Warmongering elephants
*Catsplosions
*Shaft of enlightenment
*Planespacked
The only remarkable story I remember from Dwarf Fortress that wasn't a bug was Cacame.

[hanhai-zhang]

Df is a materialist simulation. Even down to the individual thoughts of dwarves, there are values for every attribute present in the universe. I think this fact is why many comparisons to other media fail. DF is essentially a combination of the imagined fantasys of the 70's and 80's (which were themselves filtered interpretations of LOTR-esque fantasy of the early 20th century, which were themselves filtered interpretations of the oral traditions of Germanic people) filtered through a brilliant and mathematical mind.

DF is a product of its time, in that glorious early-2000's era of accessible consumer electronics, and specifically affordable CPUs. For DF would not exist if not for the audience's ability to play it! And I would argue this depth of simulation would not exist (in a consumer-facing sense) if the idea for DF had come about two decades earlier.

DF is tough to talk about now. It almost feels like its heyday came and went with the early 2010's, when it became a part of the internet's meme culture through boatmurdered and 4chan /v/, and other forums. That was the time I remember the forums most active, with all kinds of modded dreams appearing. Now, even beyond the walls of Bay12, the excitement surrounding DF seems to be waning. Ultimately, though, I think there are a huge number of fans, just very little to talk about at the moment between updates. That's how this game has always worked - lulls, and then flashes of community excitement.

I think you made an interesting point about how, nowadays, this older style of goblins, elves, etc is kind of passe. Or extremely passe, depending on who you talk to. I would agree that the things DF has become known for, like the strange bugs or the hyper-violence or the strange machinations of the A.I., almost came about accidentally through Tarn's attempt to simulate his interpreted fantasy. The quirks are there, but more interesting are all the ways these oddities interact. And that is entirely thanks to the dedication to simulation present in the dev.

So, fantasy made real via the digital, with all the associated philosophical implications. . I don't think this perspective is explored enough in our community.

Finally, to make some really broad claims, DF will ultimately become a well-known platform for fantasy modification. Which it already is. But with Steam and (hopefully) changes to the raw format of data, and the opening of more of the source code, DF really lays the foundations for all kinds of wonderful storytelling. IMO modification of DF is like creating your own story generator; you pick the actors, you change the attributes of the world, then you hit play. So anything to make this process easier will only further the beauty that is DF.

And, if not, if DF slowly tumbles into obscurity, it has already inspired hundreds of other game devs to focus on simulation and depth. Regardless of the present veneer of elves and gobbos, there is a ridiculous powerful engine under the hood, so to speak, ready for exploitation by countless creatives. And that's something lovely, no?

As a foreign player, I would say that the topic of DF's story telling is not out-dated at least in many parts of the world (outside US). The only problem is the difficulty for translation, both for the game itself and the artworks/stories about DF :<