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[DwarfUli]

I started a new fortress called Towerpuzzle. When I embarked I couldn't believe (but should have expected) how cool wave action was simulated in DF. My embark site is right on the beach of a large salt water, inland ocean. I am planning to create multiple beach forts around this ocean on neighboring embark sites.
I noticed there was driftwood scattered on the beach, luckily there is a bit of higher ground with some trees and plant life. My goal is to reclaim as much land from the ocean using a set of dry docks and pumps, and I am building some wooden dikes to hold back the waves. I started with building a pier into the ocean. To my amazement my fisherdorf started fishing on the pier, in the mist of the crashing waves (see image).

So far I have been able to at least create a "break wall" to stop the waves from approaching land. This has pushed back the water quite a bit and there was tons of driftwood to be found on the former sea floor. The largest dock is now roughly 30x50 and stands 2 z's tall. A group of 5 large tortoises have started living in the dock. I wonder if they make good soup for my dorfs.

My questions are mainly:

1) Is ocean water touching the edge of the screen "infinite" or can I pump away water from the ocean? (I don't want to use "tricks/bugs" of draining the ocean from side of screen and such).

2) If you reclaim land, will trees/plants start growing and will wildlife return if the fort is retired for a few years?


The ocean floor seems to have two levels (see image). I can build on the first ridge line (white arrow) and have started building my walls there, but could I pump off the top z-layer of water standing above the ocean level up to the underwater ridge drop that is shown by orange arrows.

I am searching for an underground cavern and hope to be able to pump it full of sea water to reclaim the land and be able to build a bee farm on the ocean floor. I am not sure how much I can really reclaim if any, beyond the main breaker wall off the beach, which is pretty much how far the dorfs can wade into the ocean, and build a wall.

[delphonso]

Wow! Good luck - this sort of thing is pretty tricky. If you pull it off, you'll have a very cool fort, though.

1) I believe they are infinite water sources, yes.

2) This will not happen. If you unretire a fort next to the ocean, it will re-fill any of the ocean tiles with ocean water (meaning anything dug out under the ocean often gets flooded as well). Your reclamation will be wasted, unfortunately. However, I believe any freshly dug areas (if muddy/soil) will grow cavern plants.

[amade]

If the tile is dependent on the floor type shouldn't channeling it make it change into a soil tile and thus preventing it from refilling the ocean? Also, since it's above ground cavern plants shouldn't grow on it right?

[PatrikLundell]

1. As mentioned, the water from the edge is unlimited.
2. No. The ocean biome doesn't support any plant life at all.

Note that drift wood is useless. It can't be collected and can't be used for anything.

delphonso's comment regarding farming refers to underground farming. Nothing is supported above ground. The ocean biome is defined by the jagged borders of the biome, not the type of ground. Channeling won't change any ground type. If you channel into soil you reveal a soil tile, but it's still within the ocean biome.

[DwarfUli]

  my first salt water biome taught me dwarves need fresh water every 3 weeks or so even when they have all the alcohol in the world. They can live without booze, just very poorly but they can't live without water...who would have thought!

I can report the inland ocean is indeed infinite water at edge 

The wave action I experience at this fort is incredible. The way the water behaves when it crashes onto objects is amazing. Is even the surf simulated? Also I noticed when I pump ocean water I see what appears as turbulence in the water below the pump. Does the game contain a simple turbulence logarithm or use Reynolds numbers? If so...well that is a bit bone-chilling..

Even my laptop seems to work a bit harder on this screen...

[PatrikLundell]

Dorfs need water to clean wounds and for washing themselves. They can live entirely without water provided they have booze, but injuries will get infected at a much higher rate, and many hospital activities won't be performed because the cleaning step couldn't be carried out. Also, hospitalized dorfs are only served water, and so will thirst to death if kept in the hospital with no water access for too long (kicking them out of the hospital when too thirsty so they can seek out booze and drink it works, though, and after that you can enable the hospital again to resume the treatment). Vjek made a really hellish embark with lethal surface temperatures and no water whatsoever a few years ago, and it was possible to deal with it, but definitely a struggle. There are some oddball dorfs that have water as a favorite drink, and so would drink water even when booze is available.

DF uses some rather simple model for water movement that includes some weirdness (see e.g. water pressure and tree trunk holes in the water) but does a decent job at indicating water sloshing around in most cases. The surf uses some separate logic, and yes, moving water is a CPU drainer.

[coalboat]

One can pump magma up to the surface and pour it onto the sea. When magma meets water, it becomes obsidian. You'll replace the sea with solid obsidian.

[DwarfUli]

One can pump magma up to the surface and pour it onto the sea. When magma meets water, it becomes obsidian. You'll replace the sea with solid obsidian.

That sounds awesome..

Ultimately you can only build so far into the sea and a pump is no good if you are trying to pump away never ending water. It appeared I was only able to build as far into the ocean as my dorfs could wade into the water before turning back, so I decided to turn the 25x60 dry dock into a swimming pool for my dorfs to learn swimming in. I had one dorf man the pump and slowly started filling the thing. It was incredibly enjoyable to watch, they even looked liked they were sort of bobbing around in the tank, I am really enjoying the smiling ascii faces. At first I only had my 10 dorf elite military squad in there, they went from dabbling swimmers to novice swimmers quite quickly. I found they learned nothing from wading in 3/7 so I went to 4/7 and watched carefully for drowning. I was able to go to 5/7 water level in the tank and they seemed to really learn. Luckily, since I have been assigning all citizens wooden training spears (aka dull wooden broom sticks), It was quite easy to get all of them into the tank. So now I have started training large groups of dorfs. I can easily fit 50 in the huge dock and it doesn't look crowded. I am thinking of creating a waterfall for them in the wave pool so they can enjoy it in there. Maybe build a tavern nearby and some housing.

Also...if they are really strong swimmers, can they wade deeper into the ocean and help me build further into the surf? Guess ill find out.

Side note: When I have swimming sessions, glasseye fish will appear in my dock. So either they are coming in through the pump or they are washing in with the surf that breaks over the top of the 2 z level tank. I am building a two pump system with grates (do grates "filter" only large items out?) to see if I am sucking them in through some weird fish-pump interaction or if it is the surf washing them in. Can I build some sort of huge fishing machine?

[Garfunkel]

Yeah, the big problem with both massive water and magma projects is that if you retire the fort and then come back later to continue it, all hell will break loose and you'll have water and/or magma everywhere regardless of how well it was contained before.

As said, Ocean biome is a special thing and nothing grows there. You have to edit the RAW files to make it so that plants can grow there if you want to live completely in the ocean. Waves can wash items away and dwarves have a tendency to fall into the ocean if you build things above it. I've tried to make lighthouse-forts multiple times.

[anewaname]

Dwarfs are either building or swimming, so a good swimmer does not build faster but they swim faster.

The glasseye fish are small animals, a.k.a vermin. Your fisherdwarfs (a.k.a aquatic trappers) can catch them but you cannot trap the fish with cage traps or other machinery. The swimming pool is within the ocean biome, and vermin are able to appear anywhere within the biomes they inhabit, so that is how they are getting in. Larger aquatic animals will not appear within the swimming pool.

[PatrikLundell]

Pumps act as water purifiers, so any contaminants are removed, while things that are too large won't be let through.

It's possible to dam off the whole ocean by constructing walls along the edges.

One way to do so is to use magma do obsidianize open water, after which the unsupported obsidian "block" causes a cave-in, falls to the floor, and fuses with the floor. This can then be repeated until a wall is built all the way up to the surface (for the construction you can either pump magma or haul it in mine carts). I use this method to deal with cavern lakes.

The other way is to obsidianize water such that the newly form obsidian "block" fuses with the shore/previous "block" to the side of it. Once you've got an unbroken "frame" you can pump the water out (there are several methods of water disposal available), and once you've pumped out the water you can then repeat the process one tile in at the next level, creating an upside down hollow pyramid. This method is typically used to deal with the magma sea, though, with the roles of water and magma reversed.

[DwarfUli]

It's possible to dam off the whole ocean by constructing walls along the edges.

That's an awesome idea I might try. Thank you everyone. A lighthouse fortress would be incredibly amazing and might be something I try. I read about dorfs riding minecarts through deep water and learning swimming that way. I created a 2nd, smaller pool at the 3rd level of my pump stack for advanced military swim training and I would like to build a track through the air connecting both pools, allowing dorfs to ride through multiple pools and under a waterfall. Sort of like an amusement park thing I guess. I kind of got obsessive with the swimming but one of these days Ill build a decent fort Imagine 100 master swimmers...limitless possibilities...

[DwarfStar]

The big challenge with mine carts and fluids is that the carts get knocked around a lot, whenever the water moves. So you will want to design your “ride” with that in mind. You probably will need powered rollers under every square a cart could get pushed, so you’ll have to run the carts through some kind of restricted channel.

[Salmeuk]

Waves can wash items away and dwarves have a tendency to fall into the ocean if you build things above it.

see: the entire fortress of Fishheads

[DwarfUli]

I found a wonderful inland ocean, I am creating several small fortresses around the lake on adjacent embark sites. The RP behind this fortress is that it is a rehabilitation site for dorfs returning from the wars with the elves and goblins. I created the usual 2 z-level tall swimming pool, 2 z levels above the top of the pool I ran an enclosed mine cart track in order to teach swimming and hence recuperate through exercise.

What a site!

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The dorf is either running after the minecart pushing it, or he is inside it, I am not sure.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The big challenge with mine carts and fluids is that the carts get knocked around a lot, whenever the water moves. So you will want to design your “ride” with that in mind. You probably will need powered rollers under every square a cart could get pushed, so you’ll have to run the carts through some kind of restricted channel.

DwarfStar proved right, at first my dorfs and his cart washed away. So now I increase the level of water, after entering the track.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Using my waterfall mechanism, the bottom tank is filled for the swimmers. Tank is set to 4/7 to enter and filled to 5/7-6/7

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

So far so good, my dorfs are under high stress though. Cracks are starting to show here and there  Now more carts and more dorfs and get the load/unload right.