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[ringringlingling]

Is there any way to keep dwarves from killing themselves by drinking or fighting when I create a Tavern?  Like maybe not putting any booze in it?  (Though that sort of defeats the purpose of having a Tavern, imo)  Taverns seem to be completely useless, or worse, just a plain disadvantage to have in your fort.  I would like to have one for the foriegn visitors and innkeeper rooms it comes with, but there is no point if my dudes are just going to kill each other.

[A_Curious_Cat]

You can avoid a lot of the problem by not hiring a poisoner.  Just make sure to have booze and mug stockpiles nearby and your patrons will serve themselves (provided they aren’t goblins that is).

[ringringlingling]

Is there any gameplay reason to have a tavern besides attracting foreign mercenaries?

[Thisfox]

Is there any gameplay reason to have a tavern besides attracting foreign mercenaries?

I keep a locals-only tavern for the happy thoughts. It's full of artifacts on pedestals, chained or caged animals, statues, and random nice furniture as well as the usual cups and booze. The dorfs socialise, and I guess it's a roleplay location for me. Also, it's a great place to coralle the migrants if you design it right.

[Bumber]

Does today's update (0.47.05) fix the lethal brawling issue?

[Grimwulf]

In my 25-year-old fort with 96 population and local-only tavern there was just one death from alcohol intoxication. I have a tavern keeper and a performer. Sometimes the dwarves have six months without a single job order, just hanging out there.

Don't quote me on that, but I assume that some physical attributes (toughness, maybe?) prevents them from dying this way. All my dwarves went through extensive military training due to the general risky layout of the fortress. Even the kids who just reached 12 years are sent into drillmaster's squad right away, and stay there for over a year, until reaching legendary status. The one dwarf who died didn't get a chance to train - he was one of the migrants.

In my previous fortress, the non-military one, I appointed a one-handed dwarf as the tavern keeper. Before that point, we had a lot of alcohol deaths among guests. But after One-Hand took over the tavern, it became nice and safe there. Again, this might be a coincidence, but maybe impaired grasp affects the keeper's activity somehow.

[PatrikLundell]

The tavern serves as a place to socialize and eat (provided you have tables and chairs in it), as well as an anchor for visitor rooms and a requirement to draw most kinds of visitors (mercs [to the limited extent they still visit], performers, "regular" visitors, but monster slayers don't need anything, scholars need a library, and pilgrims/prophets need a temple, while villains can use at least taverns and libraries as fake targets).

No poisoners is the safest way to reduce brawling and eliminates alcohol poisoning deaths (I think I've heard of someone seeing a dorf drink itself to death without "help", but that's very rare). Credible forumites say that keeping the patron/staff ratio high reduces the risk of trouble, as does extending the distance to the booze stockpile from the tavern and keeping the number of tavern allocated mugs low. Lazy poisoners are also said to be slower at booze distribution than diligent ones.

[FantasticDorf]

"Poisoners" or the humble tavern keeper has actually been functionally safe since 47.03 when the behaviour for them was changed so now they'll only serve to people who have a active need for alcohol unfufilled, pathing to those people then go idle. Without tavern keepers, the outside rumor system doesn't really operate, so there's that to consider also before you set up alcohol free-tavern just as a entertainment space.

The problem arises when dwarves having already drunk, have a need to drink that is actually far greater than the liquor they can handle meaning that they will often end up being rescued from their vomit piles and a certain death carried to the hospital though they could still asphyxiate if they're particularly weak or have damaged organs.

This kind of over-desire to drink manifests itself in the avaricious and excitement seeking members of the population, calling the tavernkeep for more rounds of alcohol well before they're actually able to process it. Dwarves in 47.05 particularly though nobody's been able to press Toady for details also purportedly utilize a similar kind of need pathfinding & targeting in where to drive their discussions (towards family and friend topics or other things?)

Here's my corresponding Mantis post with a save on the issue

[DwarfStar]

I find that fights aren’t a big problem if you keep your people happy. Oh, and I don’t let goblins in because they can’t handle their alcohol.

As for a bunch of people not working, I just recently figured out that a bunch of my citizens were listed as “performer” even though I had never set that. I guess if someone visits your fort as a performer and then becomes a citizen, you have to manually unset “performer” to get them to stop performing so much and do other tasks.

[dwarfish]

change the inebriation syndrome to significantly lower chance of tantrum and other negative symptoms. i consider the ability to drown your citizens in booze (and give they more happy thoughts) at the expense of booze depletion to be a feature

[Orca]

How do you keep goblin visitors out? If you have a tavern you seem to get all kinds of weird things coming to visit, and they don't seem to have any controls you can use.

[PatrikLundell]

How do you keep goblin visitors out? If you have a tavern you seem to get all kinds of weird things coming to visit, and they don't seem to have any controls you can use.

You only have one control (for that purpose), and that's whether to let outsiders use the tavern or not. You can't discriminate some but let others in (and I'd really like to keep the spying, buggy performance troupes away). You can set your tavern to be citizens only, citizens + residents only, or to let anyone in.

[orius]

Goblins, undead and other undesirables do have a purpose, live training for your military squads.

[DwarfStar]

How do you keep goblin visitors out? If you have a tavern you seem to get all kinds of weird things coming to visit, and they don't seem to have any controls you can use.

I suppose I haven't had that much trouble with visitors, per se. Maybe it's because I'm up against my unit cap (100) otherwise, but I only have two guests in my fort of 122 citizens right now. I do have 27 long term residents, and I don't allow goblins to be residents or citizens so there are is only one goblin (one of the visitors) currently.

[Thisfox]

In my previous fortress, the non-military one, I appointed a one-handed dwarf as the tavern keeper. Before that point, we had a lot of alcohol deaths among guests. But after One-Hand took over the tavern, it became nice and safe there. Again, this might be a coincidence, but maybe impaired grasp affects the keeper's activity somehow.

....I want to test this, but also, don't want to create another "generating crutch-users" incident or "dwarven day care" incident on the forum...