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[Azerty]

I think one thing that deserves mention in this thread overall is that Toady intends to expand out the rules that necromancy abides by into a general magic system.  Eventually, you'll have someone reading tablets of pyromancy and becoming pyromancers and can throw fireballs to wipe out armies of undead, and presumably, at least some of those powers aren't coded as inherently evil.  Then we'll just have to worry about all the collateral damage and wizards burning to death in the wildfires their fireballs cause all over again...

Small niptick but a pyromancer would use fire as tool of divination.

[Ziusudra]

Small niptick but a pyromancer would use fire as tool of divination.

Incorrect. Usage has evolved to include more generic magic.

2. Variety of magic, especially that controlling or related to a specific element, substance, or theme.

2. The magical power of conjuring or controlling fire.

[JAL28]

Maybe when all the world is consumed by necromancers, the world is magically reset, deleting all necromancers and their influence(sites, slabs, books with necromantic secrets, experiments, everything). The starting population of civilized creatures will be placed back into the capitals of their respective civs and the world starts anew. Probably implied to be Armok’s doing, though this is never explicitly mentioned(perhaps saying that a “divine force has wiped the world clean of all necromantic influence”).

[Iä! RIAKTOR!]

Maybe when all the world is consumed by necromancers, the world is magically reset, deleting all necromancers and their influence(sites, slabs, books with necromantic secrets, experiments, everything). The starting population of civilized creatures will be placed back into the capitals of their respective civs and the world starts anew. Probably implied to be Armok’s doing, though this is never explicitly mentioned(perhaps saying that a “divine force has wiped the world clean of all necromantic influence”).

This shall looks stupid.

Honestly, this may be a little off topic, but I feel like necromancers shouldn’t all just go out and build towers and stuff like that. Learning the secrets of life and death is just, that. You read a book and you get them. There theoretically shouldn’t be anything that changes a necromancer’s personality, but that is what we see right now, with them having personalities that just make them shitty people(like wanting to conquer the world). Perhaps some necromancers, when they turn, hide their identities and decide to live quietly in a town until they are found. After all, they have become immortals, what else could they want? I’m sure not everybody wants to rule the world. Right???

Why not? Ruling th world is very interesting goal, especially if you are immortal.

Optimally, the game should be able to adapt to whatever magic/technology/mechanics are made, and find its own ”balance” that way. This can be done by actors simulating a few strategies and using the one that works best. This mirrors the real world in that major advancements can be done, but eventually are counteracted. Sometimes, the best strategy may very well be to just adapt that advancement in return. Toady has talked about this (in one of the DF talks, I believe). Something like ”magic worlds are inherently imbalanced, but as long as both sides have the magic it should be fine”.

The problem with necromancers, is that using necromancy gives a clear military advantage, but both sides can’t have necromantic powers. The ”good guys” can’t get necromancy as that would turn it into a crapsack world nonetheless, which shouldn’t always happen, and current necromancers have no reasons to turn against each other, being seemingly driven only by a hatred for the living rather than having a wish for world domination. The living also can’t rise up once necromancers have won. The consequence of this is that all worlds with necromancers will sooner or later fall to the armies of undead, and then become stale, the only balance met is that of stagnation.

So how do you solve this?
You could nerf the necromancers, but then that only decreases the likelyhood that they will achieve world domination. It will still happen in older worlds, as they will have more chances during worldgen in those, just as the chance of getting a Nat 20 is higher the more times you roll a die, even if you switch from a D20 to a D100. Nerfing them too much also removes them as a threat for the player to deal with which would be a shame.
Alternatively, you could allow the world to return to ”normal” by having the necromancers and their underlings fight internally. Perhaps the necromancers really want world dominion? Then you could have late-game necromancer entities replacing the mortal ones. The undead lieutenants may also want some share of the power, or maybe the technically mortal experiment populations could rise up against their overlords, wanting to reestablish the old world. You could even go as far as having some natural counter against necromancers, like divine summoning of new populations of dead races to fight back, or anti-necromancers. But these counters must act after the necromancer apocalypse, and be able to arise spontaneously, otherwise the main problem of necromancer stagnation will not have been dealt with.

If necromancers existed in real world, they shall made the same results as in game. Maybe, with more diverse architecture.

[Ham]

Hello gnomes! I'm off topic, but this is about necromancers and zombies. My problem / suggestion is about the necromancer's resurrection ability.

The problem is that when a necromancer resurrects a dead creature (for example, a dead one is a swordsman), that creature loses everything he had (although they are in the same cell as the creature's body), and the necromancer plays the role, you have army of the naked dead. And necromancer NPCs don't look very intimidating when your dead comrades resurrect unarmed and recently killed zombies.

I suggest that a necromancer that the player can wear, a zombie or / things not taken from a corpse are tied to a corpse and, after being revived, are automatically dressed.

How do you like the proposal?

[JAL28]

Honestly I feel like the main issues are:

World generation. Necromancers have a tendency to wipe worlds clean of all civilization, meaning that a person can get very, VERY upset running world gen after world gen only to have it incinerated by necromancers. They are far too good at conquering the world and that needs to change, it’s one thing to lose a world to a crash and another to lose one to crazy necros.

Adventurer: Intelligent Undead. They are insanely OP, with game-breaking abilities like paralysis, blood syndromes, icicles, a lot of other things etc etc. While this itself would be somewhat acceptable if they were rare and far between, the rate at which necromancer influence tends to spread in normal worlds(especially if they have begun conquering other sites), it means that sooner or later you will accidentally stumble upon one of these monsters, and never live to tell the tale. That also has to be fixed.

Fortress mode: Undead Sieges. They can come when your fortress is still young, spelling death to all but the most paranoid(like me) or prepared. They can also come in large numbers and with necromancer experiments(even experiment corpses, oh god), means that undead sieges are pretty hardcore. Then again, their most broken feature is the ability to trim the young sapling that is your fortress, as any fortress with a semi-decent trap hall and spike hallway should be able to cleanse an undead siege. These may be the least broken of all necromantic abilities.

I think the issue with necros is that they grow too strong, too fast. Basically all other !!FUN!! Producers are locked behind some sort of requirement, or need you to personally activate then yourself. Goblin Sieges? Pop requirement+proximity to goblins. The latter is a personal choice. Forgotten Beasts/megabeasts as a whole? Locked, behind a wealth/population requirement. The circus? You have to find AND break the candy YOURSELF. That’s on you, not the game, for digging too deep. Werebeasts(prominent FUN)? Also locked behind requirements, allowing you to take the appropriate actions to keep your dwarves away from their infections bite. Vampires? Their not actually that bad of a threat. Unless they get your important talent first, you can quickly find and isolate them with brute forcing and checking, neutralizing their threat. But necromancers? It’s like going to the starter area and accidentally falling into the secret boss’ lair...and he is level 100.