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Author Topic: Challenging embark  (Read 665 times)

sabbingia

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Challenging embark
« on: October 08, 2020, 08:33:04 am »

Hello everyone, I used to play DF years ago and had to give up because family, work etc.
Now the the girls are all grown-up and maybe (maybe maybe) I can give some time to this gem (haha) of a game.
I think the last version I played was 0.28 or maybe 0.31, so there is waaay more content now. I am impressed by what I read in the last couple of days.
I have installed a LNP for windows and I am familiarising with Dwarf Therapist and the controls.

I am looking for recommendations for embarks, either seeds or combinations of features that I can use to find a good spot. I don't want a goldilocks embark (boooring), I am looking for something challenging but not impossibly hard. I don't know, plenty of resources but monsters all around. A wasteland sitting on a huge gold mine. Something like that. I figured that if I have to re-learn to play the game I'd rather have fun with some serious shit happening, instead of following a tutorial step by step.

Thanks!
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delphonso

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Re: Challenging embark
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2020, 08:49:31 am »

I recommend a 2x2 sized embark - better FPS and demands vertical design. More, the smaller map means whatever comes up on the map is going to your fortress quickly. Forgotten Beasts are knocking at the door the instant they arrive, undead sieges need you to act quick, wild-life will path to part of your fortress for sure.

Biomes-wise, they're all fine until you get into Sinister and Horrifying. They can have evil weather and reanimate dead...anything. They're a pain, so might be too much. The caverns is where the real action is either way, and the caverns are mostly the same everywhere.

sabbingia

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Re: Challenging embark
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2020, 01:49:59 pm »

A small embark - thank you!
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PetGreySquirrel

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Re: Challenging embark
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2020, 03:00:04 pm »

Small embark is always fun. If you want things a bit harder than that: island embarks can be fun if you're isolated by it. Glaciers are always interesting. Especially if it's evil. Aquifers can be a bit rough if you're not use to handling them.
Any evil place has a lot of potential for Fun of various sorts.
The caverns you'll have on any map are fun too... Maybe try to build a fort in the deepest cavern layer?
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gchristopher

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Re: Challenging embark
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2020, 03:10:10 pm »

I recommend a 4x4 or 5x5 embark so that you can have a greater variety of biomes and room to build more interesting defenses. (High velocity flying objects in general need a lot of room), but that will hurt FPS in the long term. Having enemies or entire armies poof into existence inches away from the fortress really hurts the sense of immersion for me.

Consider using Biome Manipulator ( http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=164658.0 ) to help figure out or modify your embark to maximize the fun. In particular, evil biomes are not always interesting, because reanimation and evil weather are interactions that are generated randomly. One thing this helps make possible is a partial evil embark where your edge tiles are evil/reanimating, but you've got a handful of non-evil biome tiles in the middle of the embark where you can butcher/dump corpses without infinite undead animal bits.

Evil weather is mutually exclusive (a region can have rain or evil clouds, but not both). Evil rain is generally harmless to mild, and evil clouds are either more serious illness, or thralling. For challenge, you want thralling, and for even more challenge, pick a thralling dust or liquid and turn on WALKING_SPREADS_SPATTER_DWF:YES in d_init.txt. My favorite "real" challenges in past versions have been from thralling dust spread making it past the decontamination pools.

Embark near enemies and (in theory) send raiders to attack everyone else and get their attention. Probably embark far away from other dwarves so enemies actually come after you instead of hitting other targets. Getting sieges reliably is a pain in the butt in newer versions of DF. Anyone that figures out how to write a siege-generating script that works with armies having to have a target and travel overland will be a hero.

Back on the FPS topic, you can limit your fortress population and modify the invasion triggers so that all the fun enemies still show up. I do this on every game. Before world gen, modify entity_default.txt to lower all the TRIGGER tags for other entities, in particular changing to [PROGRESS_TRIGGER_POPULATION:0] and [PROGRESS_TRIGGER_POP_SIEGE:0] so you don't need large numbers of dwarves to get contact and sieges. In creature_standard.txt, for all the mega and semi-megabeasts, set [ATTACK_TRIGGER:1:0:100000], so you still have to produce things, but population won't prevent attacks. Lower the titan attack trigger in wordgen params and increase the number of titans and caves for megabeasts.

Light aquifers are extremely mild. Find a heavy aquifer if you want it to contribute to the challenge or be part of any serious water-engineering project.

As far as "impossibly hard", you have to work to make DF get truly hard, if you have well-designed defenses, since even just a raised bridge stops absolutely anything. Challenge still has to be a little bit self-imposed.

The current villains update is incomplete, which mostly means you don't have the tools to keep visitors from convincing your dwarves to give your artifacts away. I don't think there's any fix for that but to keep visitors out, so I count that as a bug more than a challenge. Intelligent undead are new, so letting worldgen run for a big and establish some necromancers to embark near will probably generate a (sadly very limited and finite) number of interesting necromancer army attacks.

Given how rare large sieges are and how they deplete attacker populations, you'll probably need to look into using dfhack to increase enemy site populations, or else the world tends to run dry and stop attacking you pretty quickly.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2020, 03:13:16 pm by gchristopher »
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Challenging embark
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2020, 05:17:59 pm »

Well, the new necro towers can have some serious populations in them (I've seen more than 2000), which means it takes quite some time for the mix of trap avoiders, building destroyers, fliers, and condition spreaders to dry up, and depleting a full gobbo dark fortress takes some serious grinding (20000 gobbos, 2500 trolls, 2500 ogres). However, most of the time the necros dry up quickly, especially since they tend to be suicidal enough to get into war with every civ in the neighborhood.

Starting close to a well stocked necro tower with experiments (requires checking Legends info, e.g. exported data using Legends Viewer) can be brutal.

Unfortunately, corpse hauling is a major stress factor for fortresses, and enemies can cause more harm when dead than what they did while alive. This penalizes play styles where you meet the enemy head on to an unfair extent (and hauling all that junk is not only stressful, but very time consuming).
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gchristopher

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Re: Challenging embark
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2020, 06:19:21 pm »

Well, the new necro towers can have some serious populations in them (I've seen more than 2000), which means it takes quite some time for the mix of trap avoiders, building destroyers, fliers, and condition spreaders to dry up, and depleting a full gobbo dark fortress takes some serious grinding (20000 gobbos, 2500 trolls, 2500 ogres).
That does make Biome Manipulator more important, because only looking near high-population dark fortresses/towers (so they pick you over other targets?) will restrict your embark location options pretty severely.

Unfortunately, corpse hauling is a major stress factor for fortresses, and enemies can cause more harm when
dead than what they did while alive. This penalizes play styles where you meet the enemy head on to an unfair extent (and hauling all that junk is not only stressful, but very time consuming).
Sounds like employing intelligent undead corpse haulers are a real option now?
« Last Edit: October 08, 2020, 06:21:05 pm by gchristopher »
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