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Author Topic: HFS doesn't work?  (Read 780 times)

Nameiwillforget

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HFS doesn't work?
« on: March 21, 2020, 05:12:06 pm »
I'm posting this here because I don't know if this is a bug or not. For half an eternity I have prepared for breaching the adamantium ores until my patience grew thin and I decided to just do it and see what happens. So I'm tunneling down and there are about 40 clowns... and they show zero interest in invading my fortress! Most of them quickly disappear to somewhere. Minutes after the message appeared finally three show up and are quickly defeated. That was underwhelming to say the least. What's the matter? You'd think they'd show some more enthusiasm at the possibility of finally being able to break out of their prison.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2020, 06:28:30 pm by Nameiwillforget »
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Nameiwillforget

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Re: HFS doesn't work?
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2020, 06:07:05 pm »
So I built a staircase and sent my troops down and after some scouting the demons attacked, and then proceeded to make their way through the fortress. Guess they didn't see me before. I don't think it's supposed to happen like that.
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kaijyuu

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Re: HFS doesn't work?
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2020, 06:16:16 pm »
Normally the ~100 or so clowns spawn at the very bottom of the tube you breached, and then immediately charge your fort. 

There are two messages you get when breaching; one is about revealing the cavern ("purple vorticies" and whatnot), and the second is the clown spawning event ("horrifying screams echo from the darkness below!"). Did you get both?
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Quote from: Chesterton
For, in order that men should resist injustice, something more is necessary than that they should think injustice unpleasant. They must think injustice absurd; above all, they must think it startling. They must retain the violence of a virgin astonishment. When the pessimist looks at any infamy, it is to him, after all, only a repetition of the infamy of existence. But the optimist sees injustice as something discordant and unexpected, and it stings him into action.

Nameiwillforget

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Re: HFS doesn't work?
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2020, 06:25:10 pm »
Quote from: kaijyuu on March 21, 2020, 06:16:16 pm
Normally the ~100 or so clowns spawn at the very bottom of the tube you breached, and then immediately charge your fort. 

There are two messages you get when breaching; one is about revealing the cavern ("purple vorticies" and whatnot), and the second is the clown spawning event ("horrifying screams echo from the darkness below!"). Did you get both?

Yes, I got both.
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anewaname

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Re: HFS doesn't work?
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2020, 03:06:44 pm »
I have seen this happen (and used the opportunity to wall up the breach, because it was not intended). What I recall about it; it was a 5x5 embark, it was a reclaim, and the demons that spawned below the spire (in the central tile of the embark, moved to the northeast.

Working on the assumption it was related to the size of the embark, I attempted the same thing on another embark (in greed of getting more blue stuff), but could not duplicate it.

My current theory is that the reclaim of the site caused the issue, because during a reclaim, the "spawn" tile for magma spawning over cavern-located magma pools, is moved from the magma pool level to about the top of the cavern, which indicates an issue with the reclaims, and suspect this could also effect the immediate pathing order for the initial "horrifying screams" clowns, because when they are created, they are ordered to path to a tile that they cannot path to, which fails, so they path to another location, then eventually path back to the breached spire.

So, is your embark a reclaim?
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Quote from: dragdeler
There is something to be said about, if the stakes are as high, maybe reconsider your certitudes. One has to be aggressively allistic to feel entitled to be able to trust. But it won't happen to me, my bit doesn't count etc etc... Just saying, after my recent experiences I couldn't trust the public if I wanted to. People got their risk assessment neurons rotten and replaced with game theory. Folks walk around like fat turkeys taunting the world to slaughter them.

PatrikLundell

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Re: HFS doesn't work?
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2020, 03:58:11 pm »
I think it's happened to me at some time, and I don't do reclaims. It's certainly the case that I've typically got campers settling in the middle of my clown elimination path, but at least most of the buggers have usually pathed more or less correctly.
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Moeteru

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Re: HFS doesn't work?
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2020, 05:29:29 am »
I've encountered the same problem in 47.04 on a normal 3x3 embark in a newly generated world. I breached the HFS by digging into the side of an adamantine spire but only a handful of demons bothered to attack. Most just gathered at the top of the spire and ignored the open path into my fortress. I later dug a path into the top of the spire which successfully provoked an attack, but the demons gave up a quarter of the way through my trap system (GCS webs on cage traps) and are now refusing to move. The bait-pig is still alive, and even giving them a trap-free path to my dwarves doesn't tempt them to move. Attacking them with my military does provoke a response, although even then they prefer to stay where they are rather than going on the offensive.

I've encountered the same problem with both forgotten beasts and sieges too. Both will sometimes ignore a path into the fortress for multiple seasons, preferring to wander aimlessly around the caverns or surface. Other times they make a bee-line straight for the entrance. I think something about the invader AI in general is broken.
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