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[mihra]

So, basically, what the title says.
I created a 100+ strong dwarf military, gave everybody full-iron armour, shields and hammers, and a bunch of crossbows.
The dwarves were mostly untrained, but many (or most) of them started as novice/adequate/master hammer users, fighters, brawlers.
A 7 (maybe 10)-strong goblin invasion (with 1 or 2 crossbow users) killed 30 of my military dwarves before getting killed themselves.
How did it happen? I have a theory.
1. I used the "active/training" alert, thinking that it is universal for all squads, while it actually has to be enabled for each separate squad (learned this after the invasion, when I decided to train my dwarves).
2. I ordered the dwarf squads to attack, but without the alert, most didn't have the time to pick up their arms and armour and thus they attacked unarmed. (I didn't check if they were armed/armoured, and I buried the bodies a long time ago, so, I can't check the theory myself)
3. Thus they got killed.

Am I correct? Or is there some other reason for my failure?

[Cheedows]

Have you checked the combat reports to see the exact cause of death?

[PatrikLundell]

If you don't manage your squads but just order them to attack, then they'll attack one at a time as they come into visual range of the enemy, meaning that the gobbo mostly had a 7:1 numbers advantage. If, on top of that, you don't have them wear uniform while off duty, then yes, they'll largely be unarmed and unarmored (on the plus side: their weapons and armors won't have taken damage...).

- Gather squads out of sight of the enemy before sending them to attack, and make sure most of the squad is present.
- Make sure the uniform is worn when off duty: it can take the buggers a month just to collect the pieces when eating/drinking/sleeping is included.
- Also note that once you've unleashed squads on the enemy, they're basically out of control (not an issue in this scenario, but it is against a full siege), with some running to to attack different targets they see, while the rest of the squad enjoys the scenery as they don't see any enemies in attack range, and there's no "follow your buddies" logic. Thus, they'll spread out and get attacked by by superior numbers. It's far better to lure the enemy into a confined space you can seal off from the outside and have your dorfs mass attack the ones caught, retreat the militia back behind the corner, let a new batch of enemies in...

[mihra]

Have you checked the combat reports to see the exact cause of death?

Yes, I checked some, and they got damaged by enemy attacks, despite the fact that copper/bone shouldn't be able to penetrate steel. But steel armour wasn't mentioned in the reports tho.

[mihra]

If you don't manage your squads but just order them to attack, then they'll attack one at a time as they come into visual range of the enemy, meaning that the gobbo mostly had a 7:1 numbers advantage. If, on top of that, you don't have them wear uniform while off duty, then yes, they'll largely be unarmed and unarmored (on the plus side: their weapons and armors won't have taken damage...).

- Gather squads out of sight of the enemy before sending them to attack, and make sure most of the squad is present.
- Make sure the uniform is worn when off duty: it can take the buggers a month just to collect the pieces when eating/drinking/sleeping is included.
- Also note that once you've unleashed squads on the enemy, they're basically out of control (not an issue in this scenario, but it is against a full siege), with some running to to attack different targets they see, while the rest of the squad enjoys the scenery as they don't see any enemies in attack range, and there's no "follow your buddies" logic. Thus, they'll spread out and get attacked by by superior numbers. It's far better to lure the enemy into a confined space you can seal off from the outside and have your dorfs mass attack the ones caught, retreat the militia back behind the corner, let a new batch of enemies in...

>If you don't manage your squads but just order them to attack, then they'll attack one at a time as they come into visual range of the enemy, meaning that the gobbo mostly had a 7:1 numbers advantage.

They did attack the enemy en masse, surrounding each goblin 5-10:1. Some goblins got knocked unconscious. Dunno what happened to them after the battle.

> If, on top of that, you don't have them wear uniform while off duty, then yes, they'll largely be unarmed and unarmored (on the plus side: their weapons and armors won't have taken damage...).

Thanks for the answer. I will try to make them wear it 24/7/365, and reform the 10+ underpowered squads to 3-4 fully manned ones. Hope that the next siege, the gobbos will be the cannon fodder. I hate casualties...

[PatrikLundell]

I hate casualties too. That's why I mostly rely on traps, and use squads to mop up campers...

Edit: Another thing: if the dorfs are weak and/or poor at armor wearing, they'll move like drugged snails.

[anewaname]

2. I ordered the dwarf squads to attack, but without the alert, most didn't have the time to pick up their arms and armour and thus they attacked unarmed. (I didn't check if they were armed/armoured, and I buried the bodies a long time ago, so, I can't check the theory myself)

They will not equip armor until they receive a military-related job (receiving a kill order or station order, or starting scheduled training or individual combat drills).

I trigger their equipment-wearing by setting squads to 't'rain at a barracks, so I am not sure what happens when their first order is 'kill' or 'move'.

From what you say, it seems like they go to the kill/move location first and second would be the walk to pickup the equipment, but they are then in the fight and low-discipline dwarfs start to panic when they see many enemies and many dead dwarfs.

[PatrikLundell]

I'm rather sure pickup equipment is lower priority than movement orders. I've had morons I've ordered around caverns to explore them who'd dropped equipment at various station points, resulting both in them being less protected, and the equipment being left behind in enemy territory, while possibly claimed by other militia members.

[mihra]

Had a new 7+ strong siege, that turned out to be actually 30+ strong. Maybe the previous one was the same and I didn't notice the additional gobbos?

Anyway, used the "active/training" alert for each individual squad before the battle. While most of the idiot dwarves didn't use ALL of the armour pieces, they still used the hammers, helmets and plate armour. Won the siege with 0 casualties, in a minute or so.

The main problem was with chasing the fast archer-goblins while wearing heavy armour.

[anewaname]

I'm rather sure pickup equipment is lower priority than movement orders. I've had morons I've ordered around caverns to explore them who'd dropped equipment at various station points, resulting both in them being less protected, and the equipment being left behind in enemy territory, while possibly claimed by other militia members.

Yes, pickup equipment is lower priority than movement orders, which is the problem..  "they will not equip armor until they receive a military-related job", meaning they will obey the military-related order to move to the ordered location, then check their equipment. If they were not wearing some of their items, they start a "pickup equipment" job. A "pickup equipment" job follows these steps: "drop old item", "walk to new item", "equip new item". The order of both sets of steps is the problem (they should check their equipment before following a move order, and they should walk to the new item before un-equipping the old item). The order of the steps causes items to be dropped in bad locations and for dwarfs to be unprotected.

Most likely, the OP's slaughter was caused because 80 dwarfs (that were not wearing any of their military uniform) were given move or kill orders. They obeyed the military-related order to move to the ordered location before they checked their equipment.

[Sarmatian123]

Mittens. Caps. Shoes. <- Erase the evil from your fortress. Then do military!

Use leather armor instead of breastplate and graves/leggings, so even weak soldiers can keep up.

For training, never assign shields to squads.
For training, prioritize steel chain mail, as this best trains their armor skill.
For combat, always stash shields for all your military. Lightest metal ones.
First assign shields to squads and make them all station close the stockpile with shields.
Shields are the magic of combat. Never let your dwarves go to fight without them.

Your first emergency squad formed from civilians... can be even naked, but has to have wooden/leather shields!

When you notice most dwarves got shields into their inventories, order them to kill invaders.
Though I advise cage-traps and masspit. Masspit can be buggy, so watch out for any blinking wardogs on chains and pasture them and then chain them back.
Why? Because dead bodies cause Dwarves to go mentally insane, even tantruming.
You do not want to deal with red arrow cancer in you fortress. Trust me!

[Bumber]

For training, never assign shields to squads.

Why? Sending troops into battle without proper shield training seems like a bad idea.

[Sarmatian123]

Why? Sending troops into battle without proper shield training seems like a bad idea.

I am still under impression of remembering, that it is enough by a Dwarf to carry a shield, for it to be automatically used in hit/deflect calculations.
Skill will add to favorable odds of course.
However, I think you can assign couple shields to one Dwarf to have multiple safety checks and increase the odds without any training.