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[Lioneez]

well I was kinda wondering, is dwarf fortress a turn base strategy game in a sense?
because I see clear differences between how the game runs in fortress and adventure mode.
its kinda confusing to me since whenever I look at fortress mode until I pause to make commands everything moves but in adventure mode only after I move everything else registers.
I was kinda thinking if it would even be possible to implement an online aspect to the game but it seems impossible without knowing how the system works.
it seems impossible to me to be honest but the more I look at adventure mode the more I feel like its what almost every MMO fan would have wanted in an MMO if it was an MMO, so im kinda torn on the matter.

now I know Toady said he is not looking to make it multiplayer but honestly I dont think its possible especially since the game is not finished and there are many bugs in both mods, so another quick question in the end, how would you have tackled the idea of trying to make DF having a multiplayer option? I was thinking about it and I always got into road blocks on those ideas like rebooting the main server world each major release like in haven&hearth if you played it but problem is everything stops moving the second you stop in adventure mode so it seems like a turn based mod, agh im so lost just thinking about it.

[Sver]

It works kinda like Paradox strategies: everything moves with a flow of very short turns. If a similar speed setting was introduced to DF, it could become reasonably playable in multiplayer, technically speaking. Technically, because the gameplay itself is not well fit for multiplayer: in Fortress mode, the world's existance is very limited outside of the player fortress, and if two player fortresses were to exist simultaneously, the scale of synchronisation problems would be immeasurable. In Adventure, multiplayer would probably be impossible, because a true turn-based mode wouldn't really work with the current tick system, and making it Fortress-like real time wouldn't work with the combat.

[FantasticDorf]

in Fortress mode, the world's existance is very limited outside of the player fortress, and if two player fortresses were to exist simultaneously, the scale of synchronisation problems would be immeasurable. In Adventure, multiplayer would probably be impossible, because a true turn-based mode wouldn't really work with the current tick system, and making it Fortress-like real time wouldn't work with the combat.

I mean conceptually at least both players would have to be on the same map, which is a challenge in itself when computing a area that could be a 5x5 world square grid in entirety with explicit mode game rules, so only those two or more players and the no-mans land between them makes up the whole of the game-world.

Toady would have to make UI also to probably allow players to speak to another and ensure that the messages and information are sent appropriately, like green dwarf fort out in the tundra part of the map asking for help because red dwarf fort sent a raiding force once the dividing world barrier was disabled. Its not quite DF though without the outside interaction.

[Lioneez]

Honestly as far as the Combat system goes implementing it for adventure mode would be childs play but it will require to adapt a system from a game like Wizard101 with turns between players in the same party in combat or just allow 1v1 combat between any given unit but that wont be fun.
the real issue is where you go into loading zones and fast travel, it will probably be impossible to implement in adventure mode and I have no solution to it

second thing on the agenda is the thing that of course an MMO in adventure mode would have to be on one map or something like custom servers, im more in favor of making one world for people to play in and reboot it each time a major update comes with the update being implemented into the new patch if possible, Haven&hearth does that but thats a completely different game entirely.

so out of those 2 comments I personally think the biggest issues would be:
1)loading and unloading zones between fast travel,building camps and resting
2)processing power of larger zone in the context of the world map they play in(that can be limited by destroying civilizations but than you will be left with no NPC's probably)

do you think my possible solutions for the issues I answered were sufficient?

[Untrustedlife]

It works kinda like Paradox strategies: everything moves with a flow of very short turns. If a similar speed setting was introduced to DF, it could become reasonably playable in multiplayer, technically speaking. Technically, because the gameplay itself is not well fit for multiplayer: in Fortress mode, the world's existance is very limited outside of the player fortress, and if two player fortresses were to exist simultaneously, the scale of synchronisation problems would be immeasurable. In Adventure, multiplayer would probably be impossible, because a true turn-based mode wouldn't really work with the current tick system, and making it Fortress-like real time wouldn't work with the combat.

The world is simulated as you play fort mode with the new World Activities introduced in version .40 (the "world activation" release) and works essentially teh same in adventure mode, so the worlds existence is not as limited as it used to be. Which would minimize synchronization problems. Aside from what happens when one player pauses and the other doesnt as long as both are playing fort mode.
https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:World_activities

Questers/Vistors etc would just move around as they normally do on the world map.

[Urist McVoyager]

The current version isn't that great for multiplayer, but the next one is actually taking the first steps. We will be able to make parties in Adventure mode, and Toady mentioned in one of the FotF posts that we should be able to set up full turns for our parties before executing them. I personally intend to run a game like that with some friends, if I can. And I plan on using either Skype or Steam messenger to get us all together. Which also brings up the fact that there's an upcoming Steam version of the game. Which means we can hook up to Steam's text and voice messengers while we play. That should be all the UI we need for communicating, unless you want to take it to Discord instead.

There IS a multiplayer mod for the game, from a couple years ago. http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=165168.0 So far it's just arena fighting.

[Shonai_Dweller]

The current version isn't that great for multiplayer, but the next one is actually taking the first steps. We will be able to make parties in Adventure mode, and Toady mentioned in one of the FotF posts that we should be able to set up full turns for our parties before executing them. I personally intend to run a game like that with some friends, if I can. And I plan on using either Skype or Steam messenger to get us all together. Which also brings up the fact that there's an upcoming Steam version of the game. Which means we can hook up to Steam's text and voice messengers while we play. That should be all the UI we need for communicating, unless you want to take it to Discord instead.

There IS a multiplayer mod for the game, from a couple years ago. http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=165168.0 So far it's just arena fighting.

Well,  that's just the tactical combat system for parties, I doubt you could play the whole of Adventurer like that. Maybe with some hacking.

Also, there is no multiplayer dwarf fortress. Yes, I've seen the arena mode thing, it's jolly fun but it's just "a multiplayer game gouged out of the dwarf fortress engine" and nothing to do with the actual game. As mentioned above, while you build a fortress, NPCs exist and are doing things throughout the rest of the world. Until you can replicate that for multiplayer (have an ongoing world that a player can jump in and play a site or have an adventurer), there won't be multplayer Dwarf Fortress, just bits of the engine being forced into a multiplayer game. Fun exercise for the technically minded, sure, but not Dwarf Fortress.

And the above will never happen because time works differently in each mode. Adventurer is no fun at fortress speed, it's a turn based roguelike. Fortress is no fun at Adventurer speed (because nothing would happen for hours and hours of play).

[Untrustedlife]

The current version isn't that great for multiplayer, but the next one is actually taking the first steps. We will be able to make parties in Adventure mode, and Toady mentioned in one of the FotF posts that we should be able to set up full turns for our parties before executing them. I personally intend to run a game like that with some friends, if I can. And I plan on using either Skype or Steam messenger to get us all together. Which also brings up the fact that there's an upcoming Steam version of the game. Which means we can hook up to Steam's text and voice messengers while we play. That should be all the UI we need for communicating, unless you want to take it to Discord instead.

There IS a multiplayer mod for the game, from a couple years ago. http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=165168.0 So far it's just arena fighting.

Well,  that's just the tactical combat system for parties, I doubt you could play the whole of Adventurer like that. Maybe with some hacking.

Also, there is no multiplayer dwarf fortress. Yes, I've seen the arena mode thing, it's jolly fun but it's just "a multiplayer game gouged out of the dwarf fortress engine" and nothing to do with the actual game. As mentioned above, while you build a fortress, NPCs exist and are doing things throughout the rest of the world. Until you can replicate that for multiplayer (have an ongoing world that a player can jump in and play a site or have an adventurer), there won't be multplayer Dwarf Fortress, just bits of the engine being forced into a multiplayer game. Fun exercise for the technically minded, sure, but not Dwarf Fortress.

And the above will never happen because time works differently in each mode. Adventurer is no fun at fortress speed, it's a turn based roguelike. Fortress is no fun at Adventurer speed (because nothing would happen for hours and hours of play).

I doubt that the "tactical" mode only activates when it detects you are in combat or something given the variety of combat situations that exist , its probabbly a button you press so you could probably play the whole of adventure like that, it just would get tedius.

Its not really turn based anymore, its tick based, moving and attacking and moving at different speeds all take different amounts of "time" now, the movement speed split happened for version 40.

But yeah, i doubt we will ever get true multiplayer df given the time scale differences between the modes and such as you mentioned.

[Urist McVoyager]

Never say never. Toady has expressed dissatisfaction with the time split between the modes, and a wish to merge the two enough that you could run a fortress as an adventurer. That's what the adventure base building mechanic was groundwork for. Eventually he wants to port ALL the Fortress mode skills over to Adventure in a meaningful way. We just aren't there yet. Obviously we don't know what form it'll take, but it's a stretch goal.

[Shonai_Dweller]

Never say never. Toady has expressed dissatisfaction with the time split between the modes, and a wish to merge the two enough that you could run a fortress as an adventurer. That's what the adventure base building mechanic was groundwork for. Eventually he wants to port ALL the Fortress mode skills over to Adventure in a meaningful way. We just aren't there yet. Obviously we don't know what form it'll take, but it's a stretch goal.

Yes this is true. Merging seamlessly from one mode to the next as a single player would be non-issue. Just turn on the speed, throw up a new UI. Also make critter's move about the world map at a more reasonable speed. Hoping to see all this someday.

But multi-player? You're still stuck with Fortress being a game you want to watch moving around a lot of the time, and Adventurer where you need it to stop most of the time. You can't have both at the same time. You've also got sleep and passing time building/cutting trees to deal with in Adventurer. Do you make people do it in real time?

[Urist McVoyager]

I'll admit Fortress mode would be difficult to do multiplayer, but Adventure mode could probably be done. Have the players all in a single party and set them up permanently in the tactical mode. Or else have one be an Adventure Master who controls where the party at large goes, and then switch to tac mode when fighting or in a town. As for sleeping, it would have to be a party decision to do. Otherwise you'd risk large chunks of time popping up where the sleeping players aren't doing anything.

[Shonai_Dweller]

I'll admit Fortress mode would be difficult to do multiplayer, but Adventure mode could probably be done. Have the players all in a single party and set them up permanently in the tactical mode. Or else have one be an Adventure Master who controls where the party at large goes, and then switch to tac mode when fighting or in a town. As for sleeping, it would have to be a party decision to do. Otherwise you'd risk large chunks of time popping up where the sleeping players aren't doing anything.

Yeah, there are already multi-player roguelikes out there which provide a good model on how to go about this. So in conclusion...trash Fortress mode and focus on the good bits of the game. 

[Urist McVoyager]

Nope. In conclusion, don't worry about multiplayer. 

Better yet, let the community at large ponder this question and see if we can't solve this one ourselves. I mean, if we could have multiple computers remote access a single instance of the game through a server, we could potentially work something out. There's already add-ons that do things like making Minecraft maps or reading the game into a 3D viewport with controls for us to play with. Depending on what Toady does with the programming, someone down the road could make an add-on that reads a pre-made world into a server and lets us interact with the facts of it, at least.