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Author Topic: I am very confused  (Read 1165 times)

IncompetentFortressMaker

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I am very confused
« on: June 26, 2019, 12:50:50 pm »
A custom entity of mine doesn't have working positions aside from one; more specifically, any positions descending from the "Ruler" or "Expedition Overseer" positions totally fail to appear (have never controlled this entity, so that may be the reason for the second failure). The working position is "Religious Communicator", the only position that isn't descending from anything else and isn't a site position. Even stranger, a dwarf in a fortress of mine somehow had a relation that was justice's hand (akauti equivalent of dwarven hammerer, but should hopefully use all weapon skills) of a group show up, the odd thing being that the group in question belonged to my (dwarven) civilization! Maybe it's somehow an akauti group? Admittedly it's the only custom entity with defined positions that uses custom weapons... *shrugs* Entity raw below:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Extra weapons raw (miscellaneous fact: plançon à picot displays oddly in-game; the ç displays as something else entirely, while the à has another symbol joined behind it):
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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IncompetentFortressMaker

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Re: I am very confused
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2019, 12:59:53 pm »
Had to add to the previous message in another post due to exceeding one-post character limit; anyway, here's creature raw if needed (the creatures themselves are bugged, if you control an individual in either adventure mode or the object testing arena querying the temperature always displays "It is deathly cold." and eating any food is impossible, but drinking is fine if the water in question isn't frozen):
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I should probably also mention that no other organic creature will literally melt (amethyst men presumably do, but hey, they're made of rock). Maybe that's why the temperature reading is bugged for akautis, as controlling a human in the OJA displayed "It is warm." as expected, unlike controlling an akauti, which displayed "It is deathly cold." as detailed above. Language raw shouldn't matter (and may exceed the one-post character limit all by itself...)
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Roses

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Re: I am very confused
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2019, 02:10:44 pm »
What does your error log say?
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GoblinCookie

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Re: I am very confused
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2019, 06:42:26 am »
What may be going on is that liquid parts (blood, spit) are being made of gold.  If you define a substance as liquid or gas, it is automatically set to the temperature at which it is liquid.  You would be cold because the difference between your ambient temperature defined by molten gold and the external environment is so great. 
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IncompetentFortressMaker

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Re: I am very confused
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2019, 02:10:23 pm »
Hmm hmm hmm... that does make sense. Well, as for positions, apparently I misspelled "precedence" and the tag for naming the spouse of a position in my entity file. As the latter was in the ruler position, that's likely my problem, but IDK yet (would have to generate a new world and make an akauti civ show up in civs list in fort mode to find out). Unless... do you not need to re-generate a world if positions are modified this (potentially) extremely?
But wait - the homeotherm temperature is the same as a human's. Doesn't this affect my creature problem in some way?
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IncompetentFortressMaker

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Re: I am very confused
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2019, 01:52:47 pm »
Update: Made a new (although custom - no entity parameters altered from default, MEDIUM REGION preset) world, only to find that akauti civs still don't work right, aside from site positions - I accidentally embarked from an akauti civ (seemingly the only one) and found that site positions seem to work fine. Correction of tag spelling errors still didn't make the ruler position and all positions dependent on it show up however (looked at parent civ). Also, fort mode akautis have the same problem regarding eating as adventurer mode (player-controlled - computer is fine) ones, though drinking is fine. How worldgen ones survived at all is a mystery to me. One other thing - whenever I type i and then define a new zone, "Meeting Area (x)" is always replaced by "Meeting Area (x) Cold". What does this mean? I've never seen it before. No other zone types get the "Cold" designation, or whatever it is. To conclude: Sadly my problems are not yet fixed. Will try deleting blood/spit material modifications and see what happens (still with a custom world though).
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IncompetentFortressMaker

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Re: I am very confused
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2019, 02:13:08 pm »
All right tried controlling an akauti in object testing arena without blood/spit/pus modifications. The result? Warm temperature displayed as freezing, while scorching displayed as cold. What's going on here? Will try homeotherm modification next (maybe turn it up to some insanely high value - magma temp?)
Huh... if pus isn't modified either, same results. Who knows what's going on now.
Okay this is very, very strange. If I turn homeotherm up to magma temp, the only difference is warm temperature displays "It is hot." ...okay yeah, causing the game to run for a step results in instant death ("You have melted.").
Okay then - homeotherm of 10250 displays warm as warm but doesn't cause instant death. 10300 displays warm as warm but does cause instant death. 10200 displays warm as cold.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2019, 02:31:32 pm by IncompetentFortressMaker »
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Roses

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Re: I am very confused
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2019, 02:28:42 pm »
1. Does your error log give any information? Sometimes the littlest thing can cause very strange things to happen

2. Is there a reason you are setting the melting and boiling points so high for blood/pus/spit (and then also setting mat fixed temp for spit)? As GoblinCookie mentioned, whenever you define a materials state it will adopt the temperature needed for the state, I have no idea what effect having blood that is ~7000 units above the bone and muscle temperatures would have on a unit.
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IncompetentFortressMaker

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Re: I am very confused
« Reply #8 on: July 02, 2019, 02:17:08 pm »
1. After fixing tag misspells, nothing has showed up.

2. I removed blood/spit/pus modifications completely. After doing that, warm temp displayed as freezing, therefore I guessed the non-liquid modified materials were a problem. To counter that, I've turned the homeotherm up insanely high compared to dwarf/human homeotherm. Seems to work...

Also - after generating my latest custom world, I was very surprised to see an akauti civ show up in the list and the following appear:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Oh, and the justice's hand (executioner) position doesn't appear in sites, can executioners only have one weapon skill? :( (Site positions work fine even though the ruler doesn't, with the aforementioned exception)
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Roses

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Re: I am very confused
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2019, 03:07:46 pm »
I guess that makes sense, your non-liquid materials would have meant that most of the body materials would have been at or above 11915 which is almost the temperature of magma. It is interesting to know though that increasing the homeotherm seems to work. I'll have to make note of that in case this comes up in the future.

I'm not sure anyone has ever tried to use multiple weapon skills on an executioner, I certainly haven't so I couldn't answer that (my knowledge of entity modding is very limited). I'm unsure if you have seen the wiki, there is this little blurb there

Quote
Why Won't My Positions Appear?
The way DF determines what positions will actually appear in your fortress is somewhat counter-intuitive and fairly limiting. This guide should help you understand what you can do to actually get your positions working properly.

There are five tokens governing which positions appear in your fortress - LAND_HOLDER, REQUIRES_POPULATION, APPOINTED_BY, ELECTED, and REPLACED_BY. The first two determine when your fortress is eligible for a new position, the next two determine how a new position for which your fortress is eligible can be added, and the fifth allows you to clear up obsolete positions. Unfortunately, they also interact in some strange ways that makes creating interesting position structures difficult.

When you start a new fortress, DF compiles a list of your initial positions. To do this, it looks at the requirements for each position - any position whose only requirement is less than seven dwarves (either because they have no requirement tokens, or because their only requirement tokens are [REQUIRES_POPULATION: =< 7] or [LAND_HOLDER:some trigger whose only requirement is some number of dwarves equal to or less than 7]). Most importantly, any position whose only requirement is a LAND_HOLDER requirement, regardless of what the trigger for that requirement is, will be added if another eligible starting position is REPLACED_BY it. A non-LAND_HOLDER position that is REPLACED_BY a LAND_HOLDER position will never appear. With this list compiled, the game culls all positions that are REPLACED_BY another eligible position, and then culls all positions that have the APPOINTED_BY token. You may not embark with any appointed positions. Any remaining positions are then filled by a dwarf chosen at random.

Positions do not automatically appear when you reach their requirements. For example, if you remove the ELECTED token from the Mayor, then the Mayor will never appear, even once you reach his required number of dwarves. For a position that does not appear at embark to appear in your fortress, it must be APPOINTED_BY another position or ELECTED.

Naturally, this is more complicated than it looks. APPOINTED_BY positions must be appointed by another position already in your fortress, or a civ-level position. Only LAND_HOLDER positions may be appointed by civ-level positions. LAND_HOLDER positions that are APPOINTED_BY civ-level positions are inherently tied to civ-level tokens with the ESTABLISH_COLONY_TRADE_AGREEMENTS responsibility. If a fortress meets the LAND_HOLDER_TRIGGER for a new LAND_HOLDER tier when a caravan leaves, then the next time the outpost liaison or equivalent arrives, he will offer to make you an official colony, which will allow you to select all positions for that LAND_HOLDER level. Each time he appears, the outpost liaison will only promote your fortress one tier up the LAND_HOLDER track. The biggest problem with this system is that you may set your LAND_HOLDER_TRIGGERS such that you are eligible for the first tier of LAND_HOLDER positions at embark. If you are eligible for the first tier of LAND_HOLDER positions at embark, then all first-tier positions will appear twice - once at embark, and again when the outpost liaison comes to appoint you to the first tier.

Not sure if it helps at all
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