Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Author Topic: Loyalty cascade?  (Read 2815 times)

Shadowdragon00

  • Bay Watcher
  • Kill the elves with the bear you "borrowed"
    • View Profile
Loyalty cascade?
« on: December 27, 2017, 03:40:47 pm »

How does a Loyalty cascade work?I just got a queen and a mayor at the same time.Should I do something?
Logged

Shonai_Dweller

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Loyalty cascade?
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2017, 03:47:06 pm »

Having a queen and a mayor is perfectly normal.
Loyalty cascades are rare these days, you might be able to kick one off by ordering your military to attack citizens or merchants from your own civ.

Tavern fights can get out of hand on occasion, but usually calm down after only one or two major injuries (usually...).
Logged

They Got Leader

  • Bay Watcher
  • Current Fortress:
    • View Profile
    • Steam Profile
Re: Loyalty cascade?
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2017, 05:24:47 pm »

Shonai is right, it is really uncommon. You can find more info here.
Logged
Quote from: Urist McDwarfFortress
You do not understand the ways of Toady One. He is not a business, he's just a guy trying to make a fun game. He's invited people to come along and experience the journey with him (and help him test it out as he goes along). At the end of the day, I don't think his main goal is to sell Dwarf Fortress, its just to create the best game possible.

Shadowdragon00

  • Bay Watcher
  • Kill the elves with the bear you "borrowed"
    • View Profile
Re: Loyalty cascade?
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2017, 07:59:02 pm »

To late my mayor was sent on a "suicide mission".
Logged

Reudh

  • Bay Watcher
  • Perge scelus mihi diem perficias.
    • View Profile
Re: Loyalty cascade?
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2017, 08:32:37 pm »

Well, another mayor will eventually be elected. In the meantime:

Loyalty cascades occur when you attack members of your own civilisation with military. You are normally prevented from attacking your own civ, but some special cases apply:

If you attack dwarven traders or their animals, the attackers will be labeled both a member of and an enemy of the civ they are in. Thus, they turn and fight their friends. Anyone who comes nearby, and attacks this enemy, becomes and enemy as well, because they're attacking their own civ. And so on and so forth, until you have only a few dwarves left.

It's quite hard to accidentally cause a loyalty cascade.

StagnantSoul

  • Bay Watcher
  • "Player has withdrawn from society!"
    • View Profile
Re: Loyalty cascade?
« Reply #5 on: December 28, 2017, 01:18:18 am »

I miss when a goblin tooth in the meeting hall caused fort wide pandemonium... But dwarf baby bodies on spikes in the danger room was fine.
Logged
Quote from: Cptn Kaladin Anrizlokum
I threw night creature blood into a night creature's heart and she pulled it out and bled to death.
Quote from: Eric Blank
Places to jibber madly at each other, got it
Quote from: NJW2000
If any of them are made of fire, throw stuff, run, and think non-flammable thoughts.

mikekchar

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Loyalty cascade?
« Reply #6 on: December 28, 2017, 01:52:57 am »

Loyalty cascades happen if anyone in your fortress sees two other people in the fortress fighting each other at higher than brawl levels.  Apparently (and it seems to be the case based on my limited study) the dwarfs that witness the event will be split along family ties.  So if one of the combatants is related to someone viewing the battle, then they will side with that combatant.

As an example, if dwarf A sees dwarf B and C fighting (above brawl levels), *and* if A is related to B, then A will side with B.  It might also take friends into account, but I'm not sure.  Because migrants tend to be related to other people in the fortress, if a loyalty cascade starts, then it can literally split the fortress into 2.

Note that loyalty cascades can be stopped easily simply by making sure that nobody *who is not already involved* can't see the event.  Only dwarfs who can see the battle will get involved.  Once they are involved, *you can't stop them*.  Let them fight until one side is dead.  It *really* helps to have lockable doors to reduce line of sight in your fortress.

The easiest way I've found to get a loyalty cascade by accident is to keep were-beasts in your fortress on purpose.  When one of your dwarfs is a were-beast, *they are still seen as family to those watching*!  So if someone sees someone attack a were-beast that belongs to your fortress, a loyalty cascade is likely.

Note that not all dwarfs who see the battle will join.  The times I've checked, each combatant has been related to someone else in the battle (but I haven't checked that many times and since I know how to contain a loyalty cascade I don't really get more than 2-3 dwarfs involved at any one time).  I have noticed that dwarfs with high discipline seem less likely to join the battle, but it may be coincidence.

The other main way I've seen loyalty cascades happen is when brawls in the tavern escalate.  It's never happened in my fortresses but I've seen it more than once on Youtube play throughs.

I personally like loyalty cascades and consider them a great feature.  The only thing I'd like to see is a way for a dwarf with high social levels to mediate the conflict.  The fact that once a fight starts, it's to the death is pretty crap.  Also, once a loyalty cascade has broken out once, it would be cool if the families involved were more prone to fighting each other...
Logged

Quietust

  • Bay Watcher
  • Does not suffer fools gladly
    • View Profile
    • QMT Productions
Re: Loyalty cascade?
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2017, 06:03:02 pm »

Technically, the term "loyalty cascade" refers specifically to the "Civil War Bug" which caused dwarves to have conflicting entity memberships (Member of Civilization but Enemy of Local Government, or vice-versa) which would make them attack nearby units and spread their conflicting entity memberships to them (but which has reportedly been fixed in the most recent versions of Dwarf Fortress); it has nothing to do with bar fights, even though they share certain characteristics.
Logged
P.S. If you don't get this note, let me know and I'll write you another.
It's amazing how dwarves can make a stack of bones completely waterproof and magmaproof.
It's amazing how they can make an entire floodgate out of the bones of 2 cats.

thvaz

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Loyalty cascade?
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2017, 07:01:07 pm »

In my latest fortress (just retired) I served drinks in the tavern and got quite a bit of fights. It looks  like friends and family will join on the side of their friends/loved ones, though it could be coincidence. At most I had 4 wounded dwarves for episode, though once a visiting mercenary killed another.

There is a reported bug about killings dont counting as crimes, though.
Logged

They Got Leader

  • Bay Watcher
  • Current Fortress:
    • View Profile
    • Steam Profile
Re: Loyalty cascade?
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2017, 07:06:11 pm »

I feel like I must be doing something wrong, then. I have a fortress with 60+ dwarves and a handful of washed up poets in my tavern singing and drinking but yet no fights. This is odd.

EDIT:
"Eat/Drink: If you've built thrones and tables in your Tavern, and have food and drink stockpiles within its boundaries, then tavern goers will eat and drink while here. You should also include containers full of mugs and goblets in your tavern, as drinkers receive bad thoughts when drinking without one. "

Found my problem.
Logged
Quote from: Urist McDwarfFortress
You do not understand the ways of Toady One. He is not a business, he's just a guy trying to make a fun game. He's invited people to come along and experience the journey with him (and help him test it out as he goes along). At the end of the day, I don't think his main goal is to sell Dwarf Fortress, its just to create the best game possible.