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[Truean]

Hi,

Nice to see everyone at 12 bay again. If it's ok, I have some cell phone questions I imagine you might help with? Hopefully, it might also be a basis for a nice conversation as well. Basically it's between LG G6 and S8 on Verizon. I currently have an unlimited data plan and need a device to use it on.

I care for and get extended life from electronics. Just bought an LG G6, and I have 14 days maximum to return it. I originally wanted an S8, but gave this a try.

A.) Battery Life:
Is it me, or do these new top of the line 2017 cell phones use batteries A LOT? Even the S8 has like 5 hours of screen time per full charge? G6 gets about 4 to 4 1/2 hours of screen time. I get that it's more complicated than that with several variables, but still? Basically, there are tons of features but no power to back them up? What is going on with these things? I'm also seeing some surprising results with battery life. I still have an old Motorola Razor that can do a fair deal for being 6 years old pretty much all day without concern for battery life (and it's been through a TON of cycles).

Can anyone help me understand the reasoning behind these seemingly difficult to understand things with battery.

B.) Charging:
"Rapid charging" and wireless charging seem to be major selling points. However, it seems that there are some fairly slow charging issues as well? If a full charge gets you maybe 5 hours of on screen time, and charging takes an hour, then isn't that a bit odd? Am I missing something here?

C.) Use and Power:
Similar to the "Battery Life" argument, it seems the devices drain very quickly when their features are employed. Am I missing something or is this a glaring flaw? Yes I get that more use = more power drain, but there has to be some measure to compensate for this, because it seems like even with the screen setting and usage low, these things just drain?

D.) Misc. Obligatory rant against AI:
I hate it. No one asked for Bixby, and it has a dedicated physical button on the S8. The G6 is thankfully lacking in on board AI with the exception of an optional Google Assistant. Even if you assume AI is good, nobody is going to outshine google with proprietary software with the possible exception of Apple's Siri (who I also don't like).

Do you have an opinion on which 2017 phone is better? I'm not personally looking for an Apple iproduct, but I imagine some of you out there like that type of phone. Maybe there are some others people favor?

Any thoughts on which is better between the S8 and G6? Battery? Charging? Features? Etc?

[wierd]

Have not used an S8.  I own and use an S5, running LineageOS. (the new cyanogen mod fork)  It is running Nougat, (more or less as far as apps go) and lacks the touchwiz horseshit normally indemic in samsung devices. Works a treat for me.

I dont know if S8 is supprted or not.

[Truean]

You know, I also favor some of the "older" electronics and I hear good things about the S5. Seems like even though it may have lesser technical specs, it also probably has less bloatware. More hardware to run more bloatware doesn't make much sense to me. I seem to agree with you while knowing you probably have more tech expertise on the subject than I do.

Do you happen to know what version of android you're running? is it 7.0? Something older (I imagine). I'm very surprised to learn new 2017 flagship phones don't have android 7.1 yet, but rather 7.0. You'd think these companies would want their flagships to run the latest, assuming there's some benefit to the update.

Thanks for the post man. 

[wierd]

Lineage OS is very lean. contains no horse shit at all. It is a custom ROM, and you can even compile it yourself if you want to customize it.  If you want google's Apps, you will have to install the gapps package, as the base pack DOES NOT contain them.  (It really is that bare bones).

It looks like the Galaxy S7 is supported, as are several other fairly new devices. S8 is still too new.  My S5 gives me fairly good performance, but you might get more mileage out of a newer device if you get away from the (often poorly, if ever supported) stock rom. The S5 did NOT come with Nougat for instance. (I think it was a lollipop device, and got a marshmallow update?) I get to drive Nougat on it using Lineage OS. I also got much better features (such as functioning encrypted adopted storage and pals) than I had on the stock rom. The S5 is a mature phone, so all the device's hardware is fully supported.

You can see the supported devices (and their download packages) on the left of this page (which is for the S7):
https://download.lineageos.org/herolte

You will need a custom recovery image to flash it safely, and depending on the phone, may need an unlocked boot loader. (the S5 ships with an unlocked loader, which was a factor in my decision to buy.) I replaced the stock recovery with the teamwin recovery, and then I could own my phone like I feel I am supposed to. (Screw that "mittens" bullshit.)

Since Oreo *JUST* released, I doubt they have builds for it yet. Give it a while.

Lineage OS makes updated images at the end of every week, which include updates for security issues, etc. You dont need to update that often though- I update mine on a monthly basis.  However, this is still substantially better support than you will get from the carrier, or direct from the manufacturer.

[Truean]

Well I can see (and sorta knew from before) that you were a tech minded individual, but now I'm more impressed.

As I've said about laptops, if someone could eliminate the bloatware and increase the reservoir to usage battery ratio, then they'd be rich beyond measure. Simplicity.

Do you happen to know anything about LG G6 battery usage? Having watched some reviews on youtube videos, I can't help but wonder a bit. Again, I get that usage will inform results, but I just got this thing yesterday. I'm not being a heavy user, especially given that I have my laptop right here while I'm at home. Am I insane for thinking a 2017 flagship should have a lot more battery than what I'm seeing?

Battery life / usage: Failing that, is there a way to disable all these power hungry apps? I've toned down screen brightness, and turned on battery saver.
Is there a way to extend this or something?

Preinstalled Apps: Also, I don't get why this phone has certain apps preloaded on it:

Bank of America App: I don't use them. Also, I think I may have seen someone else's financial information on there. Odd given this is a new out of the box phone.

FFXV Mobile App: Again, never used.
(and some others)

Am I insane for thinking they somehow got me a used phone as a new one (illegal under state law without disclosure)? Does G6 come with those apps? Most distressing was seeing somebody else's finances. Plus the battery issue (though it may be this generation of phones are just very power hungry). I h ave half a mind to take this thing back to the store due to that. Thoughts?

[wierd]

If it was factory refurb, they need to disclose that it is factory refurb, and cannot legally sell it as "New."

That said, short of maybe a stressed battery pack, it is usually nothing that a full system re-image (like installing a custom rom does) wont succinctly take care of. (usually. Some of those SoCs have hidden nastiness inside them that the carrier uses to spy on people with, and that can sometimes become home for some really nasty malware, or so I have read. Typically, devices that have such features get discussed pretty intensely at the 'usual places', and I avoid such devices because they are fundamentally incompatible with my views on device ownership.)

I will invest a bit of time in seeing if there are ways to tweak the system's CPU activity governor for increasing the battery life. Short of disabling the bluetooth radio completely, turning off the wifi radio except when you intend to connect to a hotspot, and things of that nature (In addition to stripping down the running system apps, etc) the governor's settings will be the major factor in determining the battery life of the device, aside from if the manufactuerer should just be castrated with rusty implements in a 3rd world bathroom or not for just putting insufficient battery on a hungry device.

Basically, since Android lives on top of the linux kernel, some linuxisms get inherited, including the cpu governor model.

Here is a rather technically minded post from one of those "usual places" which discusses CPU governors (and IO schedulers) as an introductory piece, but is not for novices.

https://forum.xda-developers.com/general/general/ref-to-date-guide-cpu-governors-o-t3048957

Essentially, they are algorithms to help control when and how the CPU gets moved in and out of full speed/low power modes, and how they queue up IO operations to reduce resends, improve efficiency, etc.  This is especially true for things like the TCP retry methodology (which is an entirely additional read, and has roots well outside phones or linux in general, in deals exclusively with the TCP/IP protocol itself), which can radically reduce the number of packets your device sends when it has a hiccup on the network.

Power users tend to be obsessive when it comes to eeking the very last drop of either performance or utility out of a device, and will dedicate long hours to finding the exact right balance for their tastes. (Naturally, the stock roms, with their "now now mr user, you shouldnt touch that!" bullshit just wont cut it, which is why these folks bake rehashed roms all the time. I prefer something with a more auditable trail behind it, which is why I prefere android open source project (AOSP) based roms, like LineageOS. I can literally recompile and recook the rom as I damned well see fit, including adding or removing governors, poking at the schedulers, defining different TCP retry schemas, etc, by muddling the source code and recompiling.)

In a nutshell, if you want your device to stay ON for very long periods, you will want to keep the device in very low power mode for most of that time, and you do that with the governor and IO schedulers. The governor algorithm that you choose will determine what clock speed to put the devices CPU in when in low power mode, and what cpu speed to put the device in when in active use. Custom roms often allow you to overclock the cpu slightly to gain a teeny slice more performance, at the expense of service life on battery. You might want to slightly underclock for the inverse consequence. (instead of a 2.8ghz clock, might run at 2.6ghz, and eek out a few more minutes of battery per cycle without a seriously noticeable drop in performance.)

Each device and its quirks are different, and I have not used the handset that you are asking about. I will see if I can find any discussion pages on it, and see what I can learn.

[Truean]

Update. Now on an S8. The keys seem to require deliberate pushing but too soon for any judgement.
Weird, you are awesome and appreciated. I know others have the LG G6 and may benefit from that stuff in the event you did it before I switched to S8.

Basically, the phone's battery was found to be defective. There is no reason a right out of the box flagship phone should have that much drain and they took it back immediately.

[Truean]

Slight S8 update; I like it so far. Some good, bad, and ugly:

Good:
1.) Mophie is both extra battery and case. Double battery life, and protection, works. Price is comparable to competitor add ons. You can either use competitors' (Motorola's Z2 Force) moto mods or a case, but not both at once. Mophie solves this, brilliantly; their battery is your case. Personally, the projector, speaker, and style cases aren't worth the money and can be done in cheaper ways. It keeps your power hungry devices charged longer.

2.) Intuitive Physical Layout. Physical power buttons become critical in any software difficulty situation. G6 was bulky; this isn't. Even with the added thickness of the battery/case, it doesn't feel bulky. (That said there are a couple issues with interface I had. See "Bad.")

3.) Power Saving and Operations Modes: These are absolutely wonderful, and I hope they become standard. Basically the phone has multiple operational / power levels to save battery life. You can maximize the phone's performance when you are using it, or basically slim down everything to a bare bones, minimalist display to save power when you aren't using it. It projects 37 hours of power in the lowest operational / power setting, and moreso with the extended battery. This means most of the apps are hidden, the background is black, and the phone uses as little power as possible. It is wonderful when not using, or minimally using, and it saves battery life and service longevity (most batteries have a given number of charge cycles before they die out). The max power setting, however, lets you use all the features and power, when you actually want to.

Bad:
1.) Biometrics: If you're crazy enough to give up your fingerprints, maybe the odd reader positioning will dissuade you. Same deal with the facial recognition, the security companies love you, as do the police. I am speaking from years of experience. I have heard the arguments, and just looked on as clients were put in jail. Do whatever....

2.) Touch Sensitivity: Sometimes you have to actually poke the phone. Sensitivity is adjustable for the home screen button, but seemingly not for others? Other times, the phone seems to think I want to move the app icon, or otherwise interface, but not select. Odd.

3.) Infinity Glass Display: Gimmicky, & breakable, I'm glad my case/battery covers this up. Phones are expensive, this unnecessary vulnerability doesn't provide utility. My personal opinion: it strikes me as unneeded.

Ugly:
1.) Bixby: I will never use this AI or his dedicated physical button. No one asked for this; Samsung can't outdo google in this area anyhow. Screw Bixby and the horse he rode in on.

Comparatively, I considered the Moto Z2 Force. Modularity appealed to me; but the S8 accessories compensated excellently, perhaps better than moto mods. Moreover, Force's "Unbreakable" screen is plastic; it scratches easily.

Thoughts?

[wierd]

Given my tastes, if Mophie was a keyboard case to turn the S8 into a slider, I would consider an upgrade.

Physical buttons are always better, and trying to copy the damn iphone makes me displeased. I wish android makers would just stop.

I agree that giving the user options in the stock rom should be the norm. Sadly, everyone wants to try and copy the damn iphone, which is the very definition of Mittens Mode.

Biometrics... Yes, I agree. It is also the reason I don't use facebook (The world's largest facial recognition database, and the tool of oppressive governments everywhere, arab spring be damned you fools.)

Touch sensitivity might be related to using a case mod, but might also not be. Might also be related to ambient humidity, or buildup of static electric charge on the phone's screen. See if wiping it gently with an anti-static cling dryer sheet mitigates the problem.

Infinity "bevel-less" display--  Theoretically, having the glass be curved at the edges like that reduces the risk of the device getting caught on your pocket. In real world applications, a single full waist height drop will crush the corner, and initiate display shatter. The bezel is not something you really want to remove unless you are slavishly trying to copy the iphone, and want to be "Courageous" like apple. (Yes, that is sarcasm.)

A Physical Button--  Who cares what the stock rom wants to use that button for!! It's one of those sacred physical buttons!! Bixby can indeed die in a fire, but the horse he rode in on?! Physical button is physical button! Remap that to a physical home button with a custom rom when lineage supports the device! It then becomes an actually useful feature!

[TheBiggerFish]

Or maybe make it turn on the flashlight.  That would be pretty useful.

Samsung made their own bot thing?  Now that's just silly.  :/