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Author Topic: What's possible with minecarts?  (Read 1046 times)

nuget102

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What's possible with minecarts?
« on: April 12, 2017, 09:10:39 pm »

So I have a plan in my head as to what I want to do for a fort. I want my central staircase with a up shaft and a down shaft for carts on either side. Something like 3x5 shafts. I want the carts to dump on certain levels based on what they have, which would likely have to be done via weight I guess?

The way I intend this to work is each level will have a u shaped track, and where the straight track would normally have it continue to go straight, with a bridge keeping it from actually going straight causing it to turn, or would that not work? The bridge would be raised until a pressure plate is triggered, lowering said bridge allowing the minecarts to 'exit' on the level. I could have it curve though and it derail onto a separate track when the bridge is lowered.

Pretty bad at explaining this, sorry..
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PatrikLundell

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Re: What's possible with minecarts?
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2017, 03:51:21 am »

If the track turns but a cart moves at a high (derail) speed it will continue straight ahead unless there is turning support (such as a wall or a bridge) in the way. However, a drawbridge has a 100 tick delay in reacting, so you'd have to have the pressure plate placed a fair bit before the cart reaches it. I think a closed door works as a turning support, and it reacts immediately.

There are a number of people on the board who have an excellent understanding of how mine carts work in detail, but I'm not one of them, so you may want to wait for better advice.

However, setting this up is likely to be rather tricky, so I wouldn't do it unless getting it to work was an important focus of the fortress.
Sorting on weight obviously requires fine control over the weight, which means control over cart material as well as all transported contents (think booze in barrels and pots made of a number of different types stone and wood). In addition to that, it would probably work only if the level to which the mine carts are filled is tightly controlled.

If I was to try something like that (which I'm too lazy/not sufficiently interested to do) I'd probably try a setup where the mine cart's starting position determined the network configuration (a bit like an old fashioned telephone network connection when a call was made). Basically, a pressure plate passed over by the cart would set up the control bridges in the configuration for that starting point, while blocking all other entrances (this would require memory circuits to ensure each drawbridge in the "active" position remains "active" even when the pressure plate off signal is sent). Once the cart reaches the destination the other entrances are opened (this needs to be designed such that you don't get multiple carts entering as a result of opening the entrances). I'd expect a lot of debugging as well.
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nuget102

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Re: What's possible with minecarts?
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2017, 09:00:21 am »

The controlled weights I doubt will be an issue, I actually get rid of most stone and use obsidian for most everything. All minecarts would be single material, and debugging is certain to be a thing.

I tend to build vertical forts so minecarts would help get things from the forces to the surface quickly. If I can learn to use them I'm certain they'll be useful.

I'm interested to hear what what people come up with to use the least amount of tracks to deliver items across their fort.
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Gigaz

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Re: What's possible with minecarts?
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2017, 03:41:13 pm »

If you want to transport items you should almost always go with dwarf-powered minecarts. In this case, it is pretty simple to set up almost any system you want.

Automated minecarts are an entirely different beast.
First you have to think about accidents. So either the minecarts are at a place which no dwarf or animal can reach, or they are moving so slowly that they pose no danger.
Second - you can definitely make the path of a minecart depend on its weight. But the idea will sooner or later come back to haunt you. Pressure plates are slow. If two minecarts with different items come in at approximately the same time, they will surely take the same path. Even worse, the minecarts speed will depend on its weight. So you should expect elastic collisions and stuff. There are probably ways to work this out, but it is likely a difficult task for someone with a masters degree in science. :)
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nuget102

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Re: What's possible with minecarts?
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2017, 07:43:23 am »

The point of me using minecarts is to hopefully have a fort with around 20-30 dwarves. Take 10 away for military and I have a very small work force.

So automated minecarts would, ideally, eliminate the need for hauling labors. I could hopefully get done with 10 dwarves what 20 could do. That's the idea anyway. Hence me trying to do an automated mine cart.

Seems I'll just have to experiment with minecarts myself when I get the chance.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: What's possible with minecarts?
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2017, 08:28:53 am »

You still have to fill mine carts, which is a kind of hauling (and a low priority one at that: I've had the problem that haulers have taken metal bars from the smelter and hauled them up to the mine cart feeding stockpile, because the feeder stockpile for the local QS was full, but the topside feeder stockpile wasn't yet...).

A less complicated setup would be to have one route that goes from the surface to level A, dumps everything, and then returns back up (optionally with stuff loaded at the bottom end for transport topside). At level A you'd have a new route down the the magma facilities (or level B) taking the stuff that should be send further down from the QS created by the first route. Of course, this route stop could also take from a stockpile at level A (e.g. ore for smelting). This route would then do down and dump stuff further down.

A bug with mine carts is that if the feeder stockpile uses wheelbarrows those can be crammed into the cart, leading to an eternal hauling cycle with a QS taking from a wheelbarrowed feeder stockpile.
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