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[Axetibe]

Hi there!

Lately, I've been doing a lot of aboveground forts.

As for my questions today, it mainly concerns how to manage architecture outside.

For example, I've been trying to do this: https://qph.ec.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-fe77a19482488a0fafb2c6e2b4983719-c?convert_to_webp=true

See the little towers on the walls? It's been a real pain to build them on multiple Z-levels, and here's why:

1- You have to manage multiple Z-Levels. That's the whole point you might say, but it makes it so much harder that you can't build on multiple Z-levels at the same time hence you must always reapeat your orders. Any idea on how to micromanage less?
2- How do I grant access to the construction place to the dwarves? To build a wall I've tried several strategies: ramps next to the walls, stairs next to the walls, even floor next to the walls, it's all garbage and usually very hard to remove. How can I overcome this? I just want to have a clear access and avoid my dwarves being stuck. Is there some sort of scaffolding?
3- Do you know any nice geometrical shapes in DF? I play a lot with pixels circles, but I feel limited. I want A E S T H E T I C S 
4- Any tips on how to build towers and castles? I found that it's hardcore to reproduce such majesty in DF, but it can't be impossible, right?
5- Here's what I've been up to with my last try: http://www.noelshack.com/2016-51-1482361422-screenshot4.png What do you think? (only a year in) Where can I improve?

I want to thank you all in advance for your answers, have a great day, night, and merry christmas!

[Starver]

A lot of wide-ranging questions. I shall stick to addressing point 2, and this might help or hinder with point 1...

Note that constructions yet to be started are in a Last In First Out queue (asuming access is available), and I use that to my advantage.  Building a ground-level wall upon which I want to build a higher level I might try to first¹ designate the one or two centre walls, furthest from where the (permanent, ideally) vertical access will be to the wall-tops, then designate the sides towards the stairwell areas or similar.  (That's assuming that I have the materials already available to do in one go.)

It's not necessary to do this, rather than just put in the whole wall in this ne go, but it gets me in the swing of things. Because then I reasonably know that when the wall-tops will get built up to the centre where the gap is last to be filled, I can designate above that (one or two-unit) gap and that/those are next on the construction queue. The most inaccessible walls when it comes to wall-top building.  Now (barring special corners, as described in the footnotes) I just periodically go round the border and wherever a wall-top wall is obviously completed I put one additional wall. Always have a "designated for construction" wall at the edge of any current-level built wall line, until you complete an enclosure section.

Then build centre-walls above those, as soon as access is granted.  Repeat as necessary.

It's more intensive in micromanagement than mass-designating a curtain wall aboveground, but dwarven intelligence can't yet do this planning for you.  If you do want an adjacent (or, by looking at your screenshot, tween-wall) permanent walkway, e.g. at the very top of the battlements, then I suggest you designate first any awkward walls (inaccessible but non-blocking corners, to get them out of the way) and let them be built, then designate the remaining walls (allowed due to current access, even though you know they will, on their own, become mutually blocking) then the walkway (that does give access).  The walkway is in prime position, and should¹ open up access to walls quicker than you'd potentially get complaints about inaccessible walls.  But if any wall is temporarily suspended, make your own judgement of when it should be unsuspended for best results.


It actually takes far less effort to do than to describe. You can probably do intermitent (unpaused) tours of the building areas to look for the next step in the build process, if you don't want to slow things down more than necessary. But this is just my own customary and long-practiced approach. I'm not sure it's even the best way, and I'm sure that I've failed to adequately explain all the pitfalls with my approach that I've long since solved for myself but that you may soon discover.


(There's also a neat trick I use to 'preload' a queue of awkward walls and floors (manually, although I could make it into a macro), so that they get constructed jutting out over (currently) unsupported space. But that probably needs another post to explain, and isn't really so necessary in the context of your curtain-wall plans...)


¹ Or, rather, first after building any blockable locations, such as (convex) corner-walls up against² moats.
² Convex corner walls over moats/cliffs/drops or at height need further complications.

Code: [Select]

1)    2)    3)    4)    5)    6)    7)       +=existing floor/walltop
++..  ++..  ++..  ++W.  ++#.  ++#.  ++#.     .=open space, over which to build
++..  ++..  ++F.  +++.  ++d.  ++W.  ++#.     W=designate to build a wall here (stage 2 needs 1x2 block for corner)
....  .WW.  .#W.  W##.  ###.  ###.  ###.     #=wall now built
....  ....  ....  ....  ....  ....  ....     F=build a (temporary) floor here
start Walls Floor Walls decon Wall  Complete d=deconstruct the floor you built here³ Assumes there's more choice floor construction sites than constructors. Logistics may need tweaking if you have far more dwarves tasked to build things...

[Axetibe]

This explanation was very clear, thank you!

Indeed, I knew there was some kind of priority in the designations of my buildings going on, but I didn't know what it precisely was. Thank you for pointing it out, that makes sense.

And really, I'm up for anything, so I'd gladly take your tip that requires a second message! Actually, my fortress (shown on the screen) has gone horribly wrong after 5 simultaneous werelizards attacks, so I'm off to a new horizons!

[YetAnotherLurker]

1- Do you use DFHack? It can be used to mass designate constructions even without access or support, to be built when access becomes available, but be careful of collapses due to improper support. If something can only collapse when built in precisely the wrong order, that is exactly what will happen the moment you look away.
2- Grates can be used as scaffolding for access as well, and can be removed far more quickly than constructed floors, but keep in mind that they don't provide support themselves. I usually just use them for outside corners after constructing one of the adjacent walls to provide support. edit: Basically, a Floor Grate can take the place of the temporary floor F in Starver's diagram, to be used for constructing the corner wall. Faster to build and remove than a floor, but you have to be sure the supporting wall (# in stage 3) is built before designating the corner, otherwise it'll attempt to use the grate for support and collapse immediately.
3- Eh, I mostly just build rectangles and crosses, with maybe the occasional attempt at a curved structure. They're hard to get looking right and I lack creativity.

My current fort's on flat ground with just a smallish hill off to the west (that also happens to be raining blood, mind), so it has a 3-Z surface fort that's really just a ring of stoneware brick walls and a largish visitor and fishing complex tacked on later. The main section's just a 50x50 or so square, with a 30x15 or so side rectangle that extends over my river and encloses a murky pool I opened up to the river, above which sits my visitor tavern, temple, and library. The whole thing's open to the air on top, and the actual functional portion of the fortress is underground. Stocks tells me I've used over 6000 stoneware and 2000 green glass blocks throughout my fort, and it's currently in its seventh year. I think for my next attempt at a large-scale outdoor construction I'm just going to cast a huge damn block of obsidian and carve it instead, it's got to be easier than all this mucking about with constructions.

[Starver]

Okay, on the 'neat trick' point, imagine that I've got my heart set on building a 'room' such as the following plan, to which I am not yet guaranteed any wall-tops (and maybe not ever), just currently the stairwell access, "X", indicated...

Code: [Select]

#######
#+++++#
#+++++#
#+++++#
#+++++#
###+###
   X
This is how I'd "fire and forget" the building process.   Here "W" and "F" are 'set to build this turn', "#" and "+" are 'in thevqueue from a previous phase' and "c" is designations you cancel.

Code: [Select]

WWWWWWW
WWWWWWW
WWWWWWW (a 7x7 block of walls,
WWWWWWW  which is impossible to build in one go
WWWWWWW  but perfectly possible to /place/)
WWWWWWW
WWWWWWW
   X

#######
ccccccc
ccccccc
ccccccc (Cancel all but the back wall)
ccccccc
ccccccc
ccccccc
   X

#######
FFFFFFF
FFFFFFF
FFFFFFF (put floors in the gap)
FFFFFFF
FFFFFFF
FFFFFFF
   X

#######
+++++++
ccccccc
ccccccc
ccccccc (Cancel all but the /entire/ back floor)
ccccccc
ccccccc
   X

#######
+++++++
WWWWWWW
WWWWWWW
WWWWWWW (Wall block)
WWWWWWW
WWWWWWW
   X

#######
+++++++
#ccccc#
#ccccc#
#ccccc# (Remove the inner wall designations,
ccccccc  even back to the lower row,
ccccccc  plus a bits of the corners)
   X

#######
+++++++
#FFFFF#
#FFFFF# (Fill with floors)
#FFFFF#
 FFFFF
 FFFFF
   X

#######
+++++++
#+++++#
#+++++#
#+++++#
ccccccc
ccccccc (Remove these again)
   X

*If* you don't have 'corridor' access, yet sideways from the X
#WWWWW#
   X

...then
###c###
   X

...then
###+###
   X

But if you *do*, you can' modify that sequence to skip quicker to the final state, which is (designated to be) the following:
#######
+++++++
#+++++#
#+++++#
#+++++#
+++++++
###+###
   X

Spoiler: An alternative near-end result to aim for, the process to attain it left as an excercise to the reader... (click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

#+###+#
#+++++#
#+++++#
#+++++#
#+++++#
#+++++#
#+#+#+#
   X


This gives you a square room designated (during one 'paused instant') that you can forget about and mostly ignore as you manage everything else.  Except of course that when it is ctually built (or sufficiently so, for our purposes, i.e. the corners built from their' tab floors' are constructed, whatever else is currently in process or needs unsuspending from deliberate or accidental actions), designate to deconstruct the tabs and when they are gone replace them with the walls. A quick enough finishing process.

Non-square rooms are possible. You can generally manipulate things to create structures-in-potentia of up to ten tiles away from a single access point and 19 tiles wide, centred upon that place.  By concentrating on constructing floating walkways first (perhaps through the centres of an entire imagined room-system) you can even pre-pre-plan for a whole pre-planned complex of constructions for which you don't have quite so many existing standing places at the start.  It just needs some proportionately simple consideration before you even start.

(If, however, I have already gained the support of an identical level below, already built, I'd designate the central floor and doorway-floor first, then the four corner walls (the 'near corners' can be stepped around upon the wallgtops to build the 'far corners', if necessary), then as soon as any two adjacent corners are wallified I'd designate the wall-top between them as walls. As soon as floors get produced to give a place to stand, these wall-tiles are ready and waiting and able to be built, and become priority over everything except the more even more recent wall designations, which are probably in the same bit of the grand building plan anyway.)


((Or, as YetAnotherLurker says, there's DFHack, but I don't use that. I am usually personally content with the above techniques.))

[Axetibe]

Thank y'all for your answers, I'm gonna try that ASAP!

[Fleeting Frames]

3) Checking previous constructions can be helpful: Don't forget about the DF Map Archive!

Organic designs in particular maybe, as you say to like circles. Some players are fond of building within the constraints of on-embark geography, whether in caverns or in surface. Obviously, flat maps are not so interesting for this.

[Werdna]

Bridges should be mentioned.  They make great scaffolding, using much less material so fewer hauls.  Just be careful on build order because they do not support constructions yet will still allow you to designate as if they do.

[mikekchar]

I really like bridges too.  One of the nice parts of  a bridge is that it has a fairly unique look, so it's obviously scaffolding.  One other thing to keep in mind is that a bridge needs both an architect and a mason to build.  Make sure you have *many* of these set up so that you don't get huge delays in putting up the scaffolding.  Another nice side benefit is that it trains your architects ;-)