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[penguinofhonor]

So a few of my friends and I are probably going to take a trip over to Europe for a week or two next year. Right now we're in the earliest stages of planning the trip, still figuring out exactly where we're going and how we're going to get there. If you're a European or have experience travelling in Europe, I would appreciate any advice you have, even if it's not directly related to what I'm asking about.

The basic plan is Madrid -> Paris -> Amsterdam, though we're probably going to add more stops along the way (personally, I'm pushing for Belgium). Which leads me to my main question: what is the cheapest and/or easiest way to travel between countries? Right now we're thinking about flying because that looks pretty cheap, but we're open to anything that is comparably cheap. Are trains an option here, or are those for shorter trips?

Also, are there any sort of common inexpensive sleeping arrangements in European cities? A friend of mine traveled to Japan recently and spent relatively little on rooms by staying in internet cafes of all places, so if there's a similar option in Europe I want to know about it.

[ChairmanPoo]

The cheapest way is likely interrail: http://www.interrail.eu/

I've never done it myself but I know people who have

[nenjin]

I did a month's worth of travel last year between Spain, France, Germany, and a handful of other countries we drove through.

If you're traveling through France by car, prepare for tolls. Llooooooooottttsss of tolls. Easily a couple hundred dollars in tolls. We had one toll that was, I shit you not, $70.

Hostels are a fairly cheap accommodation. There was a hostel at a big tourist-y church town we visited in Spain for like....$20? a night. But you were sharing a big common room with like 25 people. I'm sure you can find at least one hostel per major city you visit. We did hotels while we were there.

If you're going to be traveling extensively in Germany, a rail pass is totally worth it. I think it was like $40 for unlimited rides as long as the pass was still valid. Just bear in mind that a rail pass is the right to be on the train, not the right to a seat. I spent a very uncomfortable 2 hour train ride to Hamburg crammed into a connector car surrounded by people's luggage because the train was so full.

Rail travel outside of Germany, I'm not so familiar with.

Lastly, Spain is fucking rad in the summer.

[Starver]

For accomodation, it's been a while since I was in Europe purely on pleasure, but Youth Hostelling might suit, if they haven't overly raised their prices.

I'm talking of accredited hostels (of the IYHF/Hostelling International-affiliated type), not the probably seedy and possibly otherwise dodgy "backpacker hostels" that would be cheaper still, but for which finding the diamonds in the rough might be a matter of chance, even with modern online reviewing systems.

I know you don't mention London, at all, but I've always quite liked staying at Earl's Court (looking it up, currently £18/night in the regular multi-occupancy dorms), which is fairly close to the transport links that connect Heathrow.to the main city.  As a Brit, I always liked the multinational crowd I encountered there, andvI like to think they didn't mind me... 

(Ninjaed on the Hostels thing. Consider this additional.)

[Sappho]

Travel:
Cheapest - Bus (but very slow and usually not very comfortable)
Fastest - Plane (expensive)
Most comfortable - Train (expensive but less so than planes)

Accommodation: Hostels

[TheBiggerFish]

Huh.

[Erkki]

What everything you want to see? You could spend two weeks in a large city and still not be able to see everything you wanted. How much of the time will you want to spend on just moving from city to another?

Depending on where you are, renting a vehicle may not be super expensive. For Madrid - Paris - Amsterdam and 2 weeks only I'd probably pick train first. Since you'll go from city centres to city centres (very likely any way) train is both cheapest and quickest.

[martinuzz]

From Spain to Paris, I'd recommend flying. Although it's possible that there's a good train connection too nowadays, flying is likely just as cheap if you keep an eye on special offers.

From Paris onwards to Belgium / Netherlands, I'd say, go train. Trains are abundant, fast, and not too expensive (not real cheap either though)

I'd say go from Paris to Brussels (direct highspeed train line), and go on a Belgian beer tour from there, working your way north-ish to the Netherlands.

I'd totally recommend that once you've seen Brussels, to take the time to visit Gent, Brugge, and Antwerp, if you like Belgian beers and old historical towns. Gent is really a student's city with rich history. Brugge is just a very pretty old town. Antwerp has a huge and famous market on tuesdays (de Vogeltjesmarkt = 'birds market') which is nice if you're into tourist traps. Not sure if it's every tuesday still, but I'm sure any Belgian forumite can inform you better on that.

By the time you're in Antwerp, you could just as well cross the border into the Netherlands and have a look at Eindhoven, the technological heart of the southern Netherlands (sadly, there still is no direct train, the train goes from Antwerp to Breda (in between Eindhoven and Rotterdam)), and from there take a train to Rotterdam, famous for modern architecture and it's harbour. From Rotterdam, it's not very far to go to The Hague, perhaps visit the beach at Scheveningen (which is right next to The Hague), before continuing onwards to Amsterdam. There's direct trains going from Eindhoven to Rotterdam like at least 4 times an hour, and even more direct trains from Rotterdam to The Hague, and from The Hague to Amsterdam. Other recommended cities to go to in the Netherlands would be Leiden and Delft (Both in the vicinity of Rotterdam / the Hague), and Utrecht (in the middle of the Netherlands). I wouldn't recommend hiring a car in the Netherlands, if only because finding a parking spot is a pain, and expensive. Trains get you anywhere, fast*. Most stations rent out bicycles, although it's become so popular that there's a chance they're all out of bikes.

If you visit Eindhoven, send me a pm, I'll come grab a beer with you downtown.

*we're a small country. A train from Eindhoven to Rotterdam takes an hour and a few minutes, including in-between stops. Rotterdam to the Hague about half an hour. The Hague to Amsterdam about 45 minutes. Eindhoven to Amsterdam about 1.5 hours for the direct line (which goes through Utrecht).

EDIT: tip for using trains in the Netherlands: "intercity" is the name used for those trains that only stop at large stations (cities). The other types tend to stop at every little village that has a station in between main destinations. Use intercities when you want to get from A to B fast.

EDIT2: helpful tool from our national railways service: http://www.ns.nl/en/journeyplanner/#/

[Meta]

French here.

Just a quick reply. The hostels are definitely the cheapest places to stay (~25€ per night). You could try couchsurfing, but it'll depend on how many people will travel with you.
Cheapest travel means are buses (check flixbus, ouigo) and carpooling (check blablacar), once again depending on how many people will be with you.

Like martinuzz, PM me if you'll go anywhere near Metz or Strasbourg in eastern France. Or, actually, for any help organizing your trip!

Edit: I just remember about a pan-european train pass, and it's actually what ChairmanPoo talked about. It could be one of the best solution for travelling on the continent! Check http://www.eurail.com/ instead of interrail if you're not European.

[nenjin]

And just remember to take some precautionary safety measures.

-Have a place to stash your stuff. People carrying everything on their backs with a camera strap around their neck are prime targets.
-Beware of pickpockets.
-Pay attention to the news. There were two terrorist attacks between all the countries I visited in a month's time. The refugee crisis hit shortly after I'd left. Just remember to keep an eye on your surroundings as well as the architecture and sights.
-Prepaid cellphones, travelers checks, etc... if you can afford to replace something vital with something temporary, it's worth it to do so.
-Ask locals about where you should go in a city or country, and where you definitely should not go. I was strongly advised to avoid Marseille, for example.
-Keep an eye on your drink, and your drinking.
-Be careful about what you leave. I did a lot of biking around Frankfurt and my hosts were really careful to take those strap on headlights you attach to your handle bars with them everywhere, which I overlooked a couple times. Just like in any major city, if you make it possible for someone to steal something, they probably will.

Soap box time: Just remember you're in someone else's country if you start running into problems with people. I didn't have any real problems while I was there, but I had two Europeans with me that were seasoned travelers and it was easy to follow their lead. Europeans, especially in areas with a lot of tourist traffic, are pretty polite and accommodating in general I've found. But that's not all Europeans or all parts of Europe. And I have occasionally brushed by a few people when I've been there who didn't hesitate to let me know they didn't like Americans. Nationalism is a thing in Europe just like it is here. But unlike being French or German or Italian or Korean or what have you in America, in Europe EVERYONE has opinions and preconceptions about America and Americans. Some people really love us. Some people can't stand us. Even if they don't come right out and say something, it may nonetheless color their attitude toward you. I had a couple people in various positions act a little....dickish to me even though they never said anything or did anything overt, and all I did was order a drink or ask for a pack of cigarettes. Ten or so years ago I was in a German restaurant with my family and the guy at a table next to us started talking shit to us in German. The American side of the family had no idea what was going on, when the German side of our family turned and started yelling back at him in German. They never did really tell us what he said. So.....yeah. Generally speaking the smaller, more remote and/or more quaint the place, the more careful you should be about your behavior.

So....mind your P's and Q's, and don't be surprised if someone starts laying all of America's fuckups out in front of you like they're your fault, especially when the drinking starts. Why X in America is dumb or bad (X can be healthcare, violence, criminal law, international policy, weight, fashion, cars, entertainment, news, politics....Trump got elected, so prepare to have to deal with that. Generally speaking Europeans loved Obama, and Trump is basically a walking European stereotype of America. I got asked more than once about Trump. I can't imagine how Europeans are processing that.) If you fancy yourself on the left, you'll probably find yourself agreeing with a lot of what they say. Europe is by and large a pretty liberal place. If you're on the right, it could make for some fairly insulting conversations. If you fancy yourself neither, you'll still have to deal with the tedium of some Europeans venting their frustrations and bafflement with America to you. Whatever your leanings, or whatever they're saying, definitely don't take it personally.

Lastly, just for the sake of appearances, learn the words for Men and Women in Spanish, German and French. Some Germans got a good laugh when I went to go the rest room and nearly walked into the ladies room because I looked right at the sign that said "Damen" as I walked toward it and missed the one off to the side that said "Herren." If it had said "Männer" or "Frau" I might have caught it. There can be a lot of details in European restaurants and stuff that it can become easy to miss little, important details like that because you might be a somewhat overwhelmed by your surroundings. As an American you get used to very commercial layouts and settings that are consistent and, well...soulless. But stuff in Europe can be all over the place and sometimes get a little funky. (Especially clubs, bars and pubs.) Or other stuff like "No Exit", or "Private Room" or even "Danger." I did zero language prep before I went over there and it didn't hurt me all that much because I could infer most of what I needed to. But again, I had hosts who spoke most of the languages I ran into, to keep me from making a complete ass out of myself. But I made a couple dumb, somewhat embarrassing mistakes as well.

Man I'm like 90% of the way through my massive write up and photo bomb of my trip to Europe. This kind of has me feeling like I should really finish it and post it.

[penguinofhonor]

Thank you guys for the advice! It's all been very helpful in planning this. I kept meaning to reply sooner, but it always seemed like I should wait until we worked out a couple more details. Now we've got our basic travel plans decided and have started to look for more specific activities, so it's time to ask for help again.

So right now we know we're flying into Madrid and spending two days there, then going to Barcelona for two days, then Paris for one day, Brussels for one day, and finally Amsterdam for three days. All the travel between cities will be on trains, except the trip from Barcelona to Paris, which will be a plane flight. Hopefully that will mean we won't spend a ton of time traveling. We've also got various lodgings booked, and thanks to hostels we have managed to find places that are relatively affordable and relatively central in pretty much every city (helps that we're not staying overnight in Paris).

Anyway, right now we're putting together a list of potential places to visit within each city. Does anyone have suggestions? I'd especially appreciate any cool old structures, as I've never seen a building older than the USA in person. We're staying near the Oude Kirk in Amsterdam, which is a very old church, but I'd like to see a lot more than that. Restaurants would also be great, or really anything you have personally enjoyed.

[ChairmanPoo]

In Madrid you might like El Escorial. Really impressive to see when you're inside. I believe there's an entry fee but it wasn't too expensive.

If you fancy Egyptian temples, there's one that was gifted by the Egyptian goverment as a reward for... something. Engineering aid with the Asswan Dam, I think



There are also a number of museums and historical sites to see, depending on your tastes.

When are you travelling?

[penguinofhonor]

In the summer - late June into early July. We're spending part of the time in Madrid at World Pride, and a good chunk of our time in Barcelona on the beach.

[martinuzz]

I think one of the older things you can find near Amsterdam is the Muiderslot. It's not the oldest castle in the country, but 13th century is still pretty darn old.
https://www.google.nl/maps/place/Muiderslot/@52.3532454,5.1023972,11.25z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x7bb6726706837ea2!8m2!3d52.3343272!4d5.0714226

Ofcourse, the city of Amsterdam itself is full of nice old colonial golden age houses, warehouses and canals. If you've got a full 3 days, consider taking a train to either Leiden, or to The Hague. Leiden has an awesome historical city center. Older than Amsterdam. Leiden  (city rights 1266AD) was a city back when Amsterdam was still an unknown village. The Hague has palaces and grand boulevards. I think the former is 45 minutes by train, the latter less than 30.

[ragman le bon]

Strongly recommend seeing the Sagrada Familia in Barcelona, definitely going inside which I found even more amazing than the outside. If you aren't interested in architecture you could be after seeing this!