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[Sanctume]

gargoyle statues, and need to be 2z+ so building destroyers still can't reach them

[Halnoth]

Did you try putting hanging statues surrounding the fortifications on outer edge?

Harder to set up, granted.

Thats a good idea to stop them jumping. Does it solve the issue mentioned by sanctume as well?

[Fleeting Frames]

Perhaps? At least they are unable to travel diagonally downwards over a hanging statue on downward ramp.

[snjwffl]

It's probably just me being stupid, but from the picture I'm not exactly sure what the design is.  To me it looks like this:

Code: [Select]

            F ☺
    ‾ W ‾   W ‾
G     G G G G G
G G G G G G G G
where G=ground, W=wall, F=fortification, _=floor, and ☺=dwarf.

Granting my interpretation, I don't see the purpose of the middle of the three constructed floors?  It seems like a (slightly) more compact (and just as effective) version would be this:

Code: [Select]

          F ☺
    ‾ W   W ‾
G     G G G G
G G G G G G G

Finally, since I was/(am?) having trouble visualizing this, I couldn't quite understand the conversation regarding effects on targetting.  Was the conclusion that there's no effective difference between the above and the following?

Code: [Select]

          F ☺
      W   W ‾
G   ‾ G G G G
G G G G G G G

From my understanding, targetting is based on straight-line visibility.  In that case then it seems the very first tower in my post wouldn't be able to target an enemy standing on the edge of the "mote" around the tower.  In the second it's iffy since I'm not sure what the height of a z-level is exactly, relative to the width/height of a tile.  In the third, I think an enemy at the edge can definitely be targetted.

Summing up:
1) Is the tower in the first codeblock ("#1") what the OP was describing?
2) Is there a reason tower #2 is less effective than #1?
3) Are there visibility/targetting differences between #1, #2 and #3?

Thanks

[Sanctume]

In codeblock #1, dwarf on right side can jump down, but unable to climb up the middle due to the floor lip.  Likewise, enemies in theory cannot climb the middle due to the floor lip extending to the left.

I'd do something like this:

Code: [Select]

   _____
  sF☺x☺Fs
_  W_x_W  _
G  W_x_W  G
G__GGGGG__G

where G=ground, W=wall, F=fortification, _=floor, x=stairs, s=statue, and ☺=dwarf.

[Fleeting Frames]

1) Yep, you got it.
3) Yeah - I suppose having the overhang lower on enemy side would grant greater visibility, though 1-high overhang is somewhat more likely to be jumped at, few that such enemies may be.

[snjwffl]

Thanks Sanctume and Fleeting Frames.  I totally forgot about jumping, so #3 is out (or I could extend the channel to be three wide, and then the whichever level the lip is on won't affect visibility).  Further, #2 is a problem because, after jumping through, my dorfs would be stupid and try and climb up to stand on the unguarded left wall and floor?

Sanctume:  Nice design.  Why is the channel two deep and not just one?

[Fleeting Frames]

Yeah, and I'd wager they'd probably then jump down from the unguarded floor to hit enemies with their crossbow.

Though, hm... could enemies possibly jump in through fortifications?
A submarinecart patrol might otherwise prevent dwarf from getting out through fortifications while training some stats and keeping lookout at same time. No passive skill boost, though.

[Sanctume]

I always do 2z dry moat. Using 1z makes the enemies jump down and use it as a path sometimes.  I prefer them to be out in the open.

As to how to get the miners out after channeling the 2nd z, I channel a ramp out and put a floor after the last miner exits.