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Author Topic: Arming my new race  (Read 1338 times)

Narrrz

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Arming my new race
« on: July 02, 2016, 04:59:57 am »
I've successfull modded in a new race (gnolls) and a civ entity that uses them. They gen into the world, they show up at my fortresses, they wear the clothing that i want them to, but to a man (creature?) they are all unarmed and have no profession. I've had up to a hundred of them show up like this.

Since i intended them to be a more primative race, i wanted them to use stone weapons - rather than change the raws for stone so that every weapon can be made from any rock, rather than just swords from obsidian, i created custom reactions for each of the weapons i had assigned to the race, created a custom generic stone material, and added all my custom reactions to the race's list of permitted reactions. So far as i can tell, from adding my custom reactions to the list of reactions permitted to dorfs, all of that works as intended. I have no idea why they would not only show up without these weapons, but without ANY weapons. They have the furnace operator job enabled, as well as stonecraft (which is used to produce these crude stone weapons at a craftsmans shop)

Here are the raws:
Gnolls:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The Civ:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

My custom material and reactions:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Can anyone see anything that i've obviously messed up?
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YetAnotherLurker

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Re: Arming my new race
« Reply #1 on: July 02, 2016, 06:28:23 am »
My guess? They don't actually have access to the crude stone material, because it's not defined to be in any biomes or layers or whatever. If they're not meant to be a playable fortress race, but only an invader, then just create a custom reaction that generates the stone out of nothing and give it to them. Take a look at the Fortress Defense mod for examples.
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smakemupagus

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Re: Arming my new race
« Reply #2 on: July 02, 2016, 10:44:38 am »
They'll only bring allowed weapons that they can make using standard built-in reactions, like at the forge and bowyer.  No gear only available through custom reactions is going to be used.
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IndigoFenix

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Re: Arming my new race
« Reply #3 on: July 02, 2016, 02:07:02 pm »
I'm also pretty sure that armies will never be generated with non-metal weapons, even if the weapons can be made of stone.  (Unless they have wood weapons, in which case they will only use wood.)

You can give them access to a custom material giving them a reaction that creates a bar of said material for free, but the material must be defined as a metal or they will not use it to make weapons.  This does mean that you will be able to melt down their 'stone' weapons in a forge.  Nothing you can do about that.
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Narrrz

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Re: Arming my new race
« Reply #4 on: July 02, 2016, 07:25:17 pm »
Thanks all =)

it just seems weird that they have no weapons at all. As far as i can tell they have all the same labor permissions as humans, so it's peculiar that they wouldn't have metal weapons, even if i can't get their stone weapons to work how i'd like.
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Narrrz

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Re: Arming my new race
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2016, 05:41:28 am »
Well, they have weapons... one weapon.

About 60 gnolls showed up, unarmed except for one 'gnoll hamerman' who had an iron warhammer.

So they obviously have access to weapons, and have the capability to use them... any idea why the overwhelming majority would still be showing up totally unarmed (and fleeing at the sight of a charging dorf)?
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FantasticDorf

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Re: Arming my new race
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2016, 08:25:32 am »
There is a alternative.

Create a seperate sub-set of weapons within your weapons raw with [CAN_STONE] and then apply [TRAINING] so that base metal variants are ruled out.

If you re-modify your custom stone to be accessible (or have a workshop that can generate this kind of stone for you unnaturally) and also a type of custom log with the sufficient properties close to stone (also from a workshop/same one as your cheat stone) you can cheat the wooden training weapons to actually inflict more damage due to weight (like glumprong) without having to cross them over to edged stone. All this with [STONE_PREF] (so you can bring the materials & wood to construct it in the craftdwarf workshop) will mean you can embark with some stone, deconstruct the wagon, build a craftdwarf and a "mining pit" out of logs then convert the remaining wood log into a axe that can actually cut to collect more logs (assuming that the mining pit process is EXTREMELY slow and the 'woodstone' logs are cumbersome).

The [CAN_STONE] should be sharp enough to cut trees and you can probably mod in a inexpensive pick also using [CAN_STONE] without a metal variant since picks are edged.

You can also nerf their access to metal by restricting [FURNACE_OPERATOR], because the civ only requires access to metal ore in order to generate a full weapon even without weapon/armoursmith labours. I suggest a revision of your tokens since most of them seem to be altered copy tags.

> Remove [METAL_PREF] if its going to be unnessecary without a furnace operator to reduce them to stone age vandals
> You can't make rock arrows because ammo types are preset, the best you are going to get is to craft heavy 'woodstone'
> To help you i've already made a tomahawk design that i've altered for you that should work pretty well, i use it in my own games to outfit my 'dimunitive alliance' multiracial creature civ of kobolds/gnomes and gremlins in keeping them from fleeing from melee due to [FLEEQUICK] morale issue. Ideally the idea is to hold a shield in one hand, and chuck the 'axes' in the other and when they get close/run out of axes, revert to a petite but reliable hand weapon for self defense.

Its actually quite a neat replacement for bows if wooden arrows are going to annoy you.

Code: [Select]
[ITEM_WEAPON:ITEM_WEAPON_AXE_TOMAHAWK]
[NAME:tomahawk:tomahawks]
[SIZE:150]
[SKILL:AXE]
[SKILL:THROWING]
[CAN_STONE]
[TRAINING] -- for gnoll demonstration purposes
[RANGED:TOMAHAWK:THROWING_AXES]
[SHOOT_FORCE:700]
[SHOOT_MAXVEL:180]
[MINIMUM_SIZE:5000]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:2]
[ATTACK:EDGE:8000:6000:hack:hacks:NO_SUB:1250]
[ATTACK_PREPARE_AND_RECOVER:2:2]
[ATTACK:BLUNT:100:1000:strike:strikes:pommel:1000]
[ATTACK_PREPARE_AND_RECOVER:2:2]

Code: [Select]
[ITEM_AMMO:ITEM_AMMO_THROWING_AXES]
[NAME:throwing axe:throwing axes]
[CLASS:THROWING_AXES]
[SIZE:80]
[ATTACK:EDGE:50:1000:stab:stabs:NO_SUB:1000]
[ATTACK_PREPARE_AND_RECOVER:2:2]
Given that wood doesn't sink in very well and most definitely will probably not even penetrate, you might want to bump up the force a tad bit (since throwing strength doesn't apply to ranged weapons) The combined skills of axe and thrower will improve with practice regardless of the training type.

> [ITEM_THEIF] will work and initiate open hostility around them and world gen stealing (including goblins but also make you friends with kobolds, but items leaving even by your own caravan will be stated as 'stolen', in the same branch of babysnatcher making you on even terms with goblins)
> Improved bows will probably also pimp up your tomahawks, so that's a nice thing.
> Additional tools are redundant without metal such as the carving/boning knives unless you create a alternative tool with the same tool function

Also made you some better shield armour that more appropriately filled the theme without throwing away the rest of the armour to [WOOD_ARMOUR] that would have done a full conversion of metal armour to wood (which is up to your own discretion given a access to stone-property wood logs)

Code: [Select]
[ITEM_SHIELD:ITEM_TRIBAL_SHIELD_SHIELD]
[NAME:shield:shields]
[ARMORLEVEL:2]
[BLOCKCHANCE:10]
[UPSTEP:2]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:2]
[BARRED]
[LEATHER]

[ITEM_SHIELD:ITEM_TRIBAL_SHIELD_BUCKLER]
[NAME:buckler:bucklers]
[ARMORLEVEL:1]
[BLOCKCHANCE:8]
[UPSTEP:1]
[MATERIAL_SIZE:1]
[BARRED]
[LEATHER]
> You may require new reactions for some of the concepts described in the thread.

I hope this is informative and useful.

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Bogus

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Re: Arming my new race
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2016, 10:51:27 am »
im unsure weapons with the [TRAINING] tag will ever be used by attackers?

anyway, another possibility would be to script it. there already exists infrastructure to equip creatures with items, all you need to do is to write a script that equips invaders of that race with said items.

there is also that civilization leveling script, which allows you control exactly what items a civ has access to. i dont know if they would use it in a siege tho if its not made from metal.
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FantasticDorf

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Re: Arming my new race
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2016, 11:07:47 am »
Quote from: Bogus on July 09, 2016, 10:51:27 am
im unsure weapons with the [TRAINING] tag will ever be used by attackers?

anyway, another possibility would be to script it. there already exists infrastructure to equip creatures with items, all you need to do is to write a script that equips invaders of that race with said items.

there is also that civilization leveling script, which allows you control exactly what items a civ has access to. i dont know if they would use it in a siege tho if its not made from metal.

Use [WOOD_WEAPONS] instead then, they'll draw off local woods and the modified logs as active weapons swapping them for metal. Whether [CAN_STONE] tools can be brought along for sieges i don't know but having that there would keep functionality for fortress mode and superior fortress mode defenses.

EDIT - Can stone tools could possibly be brought along because they are explicitly not metal and if you generate the stones (and reaction) at a workshop level, they'll always be accessible to the civ for weapon generation increasing the chances of them bringing them along.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2016, 11:20:02 am by FantasticDorf »
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