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Author Topic: Dreams (and premonitions)  (Read 1614 times)

Quarterblue

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Dreams (and premonitions)
« on: August 18, 2016, 09:17:43 pm »

(Just to make it clear, I'm talking about dreams as in REM sleep, not lifelong wishes which are already in.)

In the very early (unreleased) versions of DF, there used to be a wizard that would show up to the fortress to request a specific dwarf to go on a journey and if you refused, someone in your fortress would have a "terrifying dream about an army of the dead" shortly before your fortress getting invaded by, well, said army of the dead. Of course this was all very scripted and this part of the code is now inactive, but I believe this predictable system could be expanded into a procedurally generated one.

Basically, sentient creatures (or any kind of creature really? I believe animals can dream, though I'm not sure which ones) should be able to experience dreams when they are unconscious. You'd be able to see it in lieu of their current "thought of the moment" in the thought screen. The description of the dream would look very much like item descriptions depicting common historical events, except the depictions here would be somewhat random (ideally they'd make sort of sense in the weird way dreams do, that is, not at all outside of a context) For instance, "Urist Uristurist is dreaming of the theft of the forgotten beast Edros Urbrask's left foot, fourth toe by the kobold Thiskklikumis in the Cave of Eternity. Urist is making a plaintive gesture. The kobold is secreting freakish grey muck. The kobold is wearing a giant cave spider bone hat. On the hat is an engraving of Urist's mother. It menaces with spikes of elf leather. On the hat is a coating of the goblin Sokol Sklmuis's vomit." And so on. The dreams would usually be about recent events and depicting objects and people known to the dreamer (whether by personal acquaintance, worship, recent killings, etc.) and could betray the thoughts, needs and current concerns of the dwarf. A dwarf could feel a wide array of emotions after any particular dream, from relief after a nightmare to fondness after a dream of romance.

Now the reason such a system could be worthwhile on top of fleshing out already complex personalities is that sometimes, not very often, some dwarves would be struck by premonitory dreams. These dreams could alert the player of an imminent danger (from the arrival of a titan to an impeding siege, or the so-called "army of the dead" if we're talking about a necro siege, or even just a deadly evil cloud) and trigger an announcement so the player takes it seriously. I guess there could be a system where some dwarves are naturally more sensible to these dreams than others (and this could be derived from their personality and values) and have them more often. It could also be related to religious aspects, for instance a dwarf that worships a god of death could have a premonition of a terrifying army of the dead (again) laying siege to the fortress, a god of war could warn about goblins, and so on. There could be an increased incidence of such dreams during full moon. Some forgotten beasts could also induce dreams in dwarves who worship them, driving them mad from behind their sealed drawbridges, thus giving the player an incentive to go and fight them. In any case, the possibilities are numerous and I think I'm only scratching the surface.

The best thing is that the framework shouldn't be that hard, it's basically just changing the thought screen to a procedurally generated engraving description from time to time, and then it's easy to go from there to actual, scary business.
Anyway, I did a (admittedly quick) search for similar suggestions but only found some related to lifelong goals, not actual dreams, due to the multiple meanings of the word, so sorry if I missed an existing thread.
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Bumber

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Re: Dreams (and premonitions)
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2016, 12:13:25 am »

There's a similar thread still on the first page: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=160045.0
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Reading his name would trigger it. Thinking of him would trigger it. No other circumstances would trigger it- it was strictly related to the concept of Bill Clinton entering the conscious mind.

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WillowLuman

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Re: Dreams (and premonitions)
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2016, 12:28:52 am »

Not sure how well you could do premonitions in a game that relies so much on RNG, especially as player actions can easily throw things off-course.
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Quarterblue

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Re: Dreams (and premonitions)
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2016, 03:35:35 am »

There's a similar thread still on the first page: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=160045.0

Please read both threads before dropping Footkerchief-style one-liners :P. IndigoFenix is talking about literally going out on a dream world which involves extra planes, quests and whatnot. I'm really just talking about an additiion to the thought screen with possible interesting gameplay effects. His suggestion is primarily about Adv mode, mine is primarily about Fort mode. The word dream is just about the only thing both suggestions have in common.

Quote
Not sure how well you could do premonitions in a game that relies so much on RNG, especially as player actions can easily throw things off-course.

Well instead of rolling for a titan or a siege the game would roll for the future appearance of either at a fixed date. Things would be delayed by a couple weeks or something, which isn't much.
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WillowLuman

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Re: Dreams (and premonitions)
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2016, 04:28:47 am »

Thing is, megabeasts, invasions, and other things no longer get summoned straight to your fort, they have to roam over the overworld off-screen
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Quarterblue

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Re: Dreams (and premonitions)
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2016, 05:06:43 am »

True enough, I had forgotten about that. But then I didn't understand your point about the RNG. If you're saying invasion events are effectively set in advance due to the invaders having to actually roam the map to get to you, wbat prevents a dwarf from having a terrifying dream in the meantime? Such a dream would depend on the same kind of predictability invaders currently have.
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IndigoFenix

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Re: Dreams (and premonitions)
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2016, 07:26:26 am »

These issues are easily dealt with by making dreams not always be prophetic...like real life.   And when they are prophetic, they merely indicate something that might happen, rather than something that will.  Dreams can provide psychic knowledge of current events (like an army heading towards your fort) and extrapolate from there.

There could be some overlap between dream worlds and fort mode dreams; dreams in general are procedurally generated based on the individual's thoughts, mood, and memories, with a potential bit of psychic knowledge sometimes mixed in.  If your own character dreams, the dream becomes playable.

WillowLuman

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Re: Dreams (and premonitions)
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2016, 12:40:45 pm »

True enough, I had forgotten about that. But then I didn't understand your point about the RNG. If you're saying invasion events are effectively set in advance due to the invaders having to actually roam the map to get to you, wbat prevents a dwarf from having a terrifying dream in the meantime? Such a dream would depend on the same kind of predictability invaders currently have.

It used to be that the game would pick an event date somewhat in advance and force something to happen then, but all kinds of stuff can happen to something as it moves over the OW map. It might meet another army or a beast on the way, for instance.
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Whisperling

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Re: Dreams (and premonitions)
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2016, 12:53:36 pm »

True enough, I had forgotten about that. But then I didn't understand your point about the RNG. If you're saying invasion events are effectively set in advance due to the invaders having to actually roam the map to get to you, wbat prevents a dwarf from having a terrifying dream in the meantime? Such a dream would depend on the same kind of predictability invaders currently have.

It used to be that the game would pick an event date somewhat in advance and force something to happen then, but all kinds of stuff can happen to something as it moves over the OW map. It might meet another army or a beast on the way, for instance.

It would be pretty easy to say someone is dreaming about a "horde of goblins on the march" rather than "a horde of goblins scaling the fortress' walls." In essence, it would be possible to make it less about predicting the future and more about a supernatural awareness of current events. Could lead to some disappointment if the visitors don't actually make it through, I suppose, but nothing about it would actually be wrong.
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SixOfSpades

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Re: Dreams (and premonitions)
« Reply #9 on: August 20, 2016, 01:53:47 am »

It would be pretty easy to say someone is dreaming about a "horde of goblins on the march" rather than "a horde of goblins scaling the fortress' walls." In essence, it would be possible to make it less about predicting the future and more about a supernatural awareness of current events. Could lead to some disappointment if the visitors don't actually make it through, I suppose, but nothing about it would actually be wrong.
The dream could simply be triggered by the titan / horde / whatever wandering within X tiles of the fortress, or some other criterion where the event is likely, but not guaranteed.

Fun possibility: Dwarves that have dreams that are reported and seen to come true (in that order) will be known for it. If those same dwarves have such dreams more than once, they will get a reputation for the ability. Prophetic dreaming could be a learnable skill, most likely implemented in either the Religion or Magic arcs, with (IMO) the most likely candidates being clergy of a god of the Fate, Luck, Wisdom, Inspiration, or of course Dreams spheres.
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