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[PatrikLundell]

@vjek:
The 1 year save referenced in the link is for a dead civ. Note that it's not mine, but provided by TheCheeseMaker. It's from 0.40.24, though. A rather interesting challenge, cut short by a save corruption (shortly after "winning" though).

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=154070.msg6624201#msg6624201

@InsanityPrelude:
The conditions for the "dead or dying" pre embark message are those listed by Loci. I very much doubt you can get a dead civ without that, but you can easily get a monarch and end up on the endangered list if your civ only had the mountainhome as a location and that one in conquered, so not getting the message only refers to the situation at embark, as it doesn't predict what will happen later. If I understand it correctly, you'll only get the monarch if there are no longer any site senior to yours standing when the previous monarch dies.

[Dorsidwarf]

my civ held no sites and had no living historical figures... what do you call dead?

Your civilization is not extinct. An extinct civilization:

a) has no sites
b) has no population
c) has no nobles (and will not appoint any)
d) provides no trade caravans
e) provides no immigrants beyond the two hard-coded waves


This is distinct from a "struggling" civilization, which:

a) has few or no sites
b) has some population
c) has and/or will appoint nobles (e.g. monarch)
d) provides trade caravans
e) provides immigrants, even if they must be generated from scratch


The game doesn't clearly distinguish between "extinct" and "struggling" civilizations on embark. Struggling civilizations end up playing just like normal civilizations (except for the early monarch), while truly extinct civilizations are markedly different. Calling a struggling civilization "dead" needlessly confuses the issue, and players have all sorts of anecdotes about their own "dead" civilizations which don't reflect a truly extinct civilization at all.

Just saying, when you ignore someone's description of a situation, then describe their situation back to them and tell them " you would have to have this situation for X", then admonish them piously, you come off as a complete tool

[SaD-82]

my civ held no sites and had no living historical figures... what do you call dead?

Your civilization is not extinct. An extinct civilization:

a) has no sites
b) has no population
c) has no nobles (and will not appoint any)
d) provides no trade caravans
e) provides no immigrants beyond the two hard-coded waves


This is distinct from a "struggling" civilization, which:

a) has few or no sites
b) has some population
c) has and/or will appoint nobles (e.g. monarch)
d) provides trade caravans
e) provides immigrants, even if they must be generated from scratch


The game doesn't clearly distinguish between "extinct" and "struggling" civilizations on embark. Struggling civilizations end up playing just like normal civilizations (except for the early monarch), while truly extinct civilizations are markedly different. Calling a struggling civilization "dead" needlessly confuses the issue, and players have all sorts of anecdotes about their own "dead" civilizations which don't reflect a truly extinct civilization at all.

Just saying, when you ignore someone's description of a situation, then describe their situation back to them and tell them " you would have to have this situation for X", then admonish them piously, you come off as a complete tool

I can understand your point, but:
"No historical figure" doesn't mean "no population".
Therefore: If OP hasn't any historical-figure-dwarves, he still can have dwarf-population.
And in this case, his civ wouldn't be dead.

[vjek]

@vjek:
The 1 year save referenced in the link is for a dead civ. Note that it's not mine, but provided by TheCheeseMaker. It's from 0.40.24, though. A rather interesting challenge, cut short by a save corruption (shortly after "winning" though). ...

Hm.. that worldgen goes to 1000 years, with 23 rejections, so isn't cross platform.  It also has hillocks and fortresses both, so that's a bit odd, given the "has no sites" requirement.  It also clearly has population, even at the end of 1000 years, so it obviously had population at year 1.
Even in the contrived worlds I make whereby the initial civ instantly dies to a forgotten beast before year 200, I still always get caravans.

The reason I'm so interested in this is because if there is a non-raw-editing way of guaranteeing no caravans, I would love to replicate it and use it for competitive community challenges.
If extinct civs only act extinct until the end of the first year, or this behavior was due to a reclaim, those are both valuable data points regardless.

[PatrikLundell]

I may misunderstand your comment, but I played from that 1 year point for 15 or so years before the corruption, and I never received either caravans or migrants (I was trying to get repopulation/breeding going, so I spent 7 or so years with half the year idle (apart from basic maintenance) in order to get the dorfs to socialize. I did get 6 lover couples of which 4 were reproductively viable according to gaydar, but no marriage).

Do the hillocks and fortresses belong to the dead civ though, or do they belong to another one(s)? You might also want to ping TheCheeseMaker to see if he has any insights to share.

I'll keep my eyes open if I get any dead civs, though.