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[Daris]

It's not a tolerances thing.  It's a whole other kind of ability entirely.  The dwarf used the entirety of each ingredient, folding them into a pocket dimension linked to the artifact, incorporating the whole of each part into the final artifact.  I see no other possible explanation.

There's nothing strange or magical or "pocket dimension" about this.  Your artifact mechanism simply exists in more than three spatial dimensions.  Just as a two-dimensional being would perceive a sphere as a flat circle, what appears to be a simple mechanism is, in reality, that portion of a hyper-mechanism that intersects the dimensions that we can perceive.

The dwarves themselves also exist in at least four spatial dimensions, possibly more.  Once you accept this reality, so much of what they do and are starts to make sense.

But would not these materials still retain their mass if made into 4 dimensional objects? It is well known that decorations do not increase an object's mass significantly, and that stone objects always have less mass then a boulder of the same kind of stone; the pocket dimension theory explains this. Then again I've never heard anything that explains how every variety of furniture has more mass than the metal bars used to create it.......

Both of these phenomena are explained by the same mechanism.  You think the dwarf used a platinum bar to decorate her feather wood scepter, but she really used only negligible amounts of platinum.  The remainder of the bar was discarded into higher-dimensional space.

Similarly, you think the dwarf used only 3Γ of sand and a 7Γ bar of pearlash to create that 78Γ clear glass table, but dwarves are not limited by our puny perceptions of a mere three spatial dimensions.  To achieve true perfection, additional higher-dimensional materials are utilized in the table's construction.

Just as every sphere need not intersect Flatland, every bar of metal need not intersect our perceptual space.

[contheman]

It's not a tolerances thing.  It's a whole other kind of ability entirely.  The dwarf used the entirety of each ingredient, folding them into a pocket dimension linked to the artifact, incorporating the whole of each part into the final artifact.  I see no other possible explanation.

There's nothing strange or magical or "pocket dimension" about this.  Your artifact mechanism simply exists in more than three spatial dimensions.  Just as a two-dimensional being would perceive a sphere as a flat circle, what appears to be a simple mechanism is, in reality, that portion of a hyper-mechanism that intersects the dimensions that we can perceive.

The dwarves themselves also exist in at least four spatial dimensions, possibly more.  Once you accept this reality, so much of what they do and are starts to make sense.

But would not these materials still retain their mass if made into 4 dimensional objects? It is well known that decorations do not increase an object's mass significantly, and that stone objects always have less mass then a boulder of the same kind of stone; the pocket dimension theory explains this. Then again I've never heard anything that explains how every variety of furniture has more mass than the metal bars used to create it.......

Both of these phenomena are explained by the same mechanism.  You think the dwarf used a platinum bar to decorate her feather wood scepter, but she really used only negligible amounts of platinum.  The remainder of the bar was discarded into higher-dimensional space.

Similarly, you think the dwarf used only 3Γ of sand and a 7Γ bar of pearlash to create that 78Γ clear glass table, but dwarves are not limited by our puny perceptions of a mere three spatial dimensions.  To achieve true perfection, additional higher-dimensional materials are utilized in the table's construction.

Just as every sphere need not intersect Flatland, every bar of metal need not intersect our perceptual space.

There's also the possibility that Dwarves can craft with dark matter.

[cochramd]

It's not a tolerances thing.  It's a whole other kind of ability entirely.  The dwarf used the entirety of each ingredient, folding them into a pocket dimension linked to the artifact, incorporating the whole of each part into the final artifact.  I see no other possible explanation.

There's nothing strange or magical or "pocket dimension" about this.  Your artifact mechanism simply exists in more than three spatial dimensions.  Just as a two-dimensional being would perceive a sphere as a flat circle, what appears to be a simple mechanism is, in reality, that portion of a hyper-mechanism that intersects the dimensions that we can perceive.

The dwarves themselves also exist in at least four spatial dimensions, possibly more.  Once you accept this reality, so much of what they do and are starts to make sense.

But would not these materials still retain their mass if made into 4 dimensional objects? It is well known that decorations do not increase an object's mass significantly, and that stone objects always have less mass then a boulder of the same kind of stone; the pocket dimension theory explains this. Then again I've never heard anything that explains how every variety of furniture has more mass than the metal bars used to create it.......

Both of these phenomena are explained by the same mechanism.  You think the dwarf used a platinum bar to decorate her feather wood scepter, but she really used only negligible amounts of platinum.  The remainder of the bar was discarded into higher-dimensional space.

Similarly, you think the dwarf used only 3Γ of sand and a 7Γ bar of pearlash to create that 78Γ clear glass table, but dwarves are not limited by our puny perceptions of a mere three spatial dimensions.  To achieve true perfection, additional higher-dimensional materials are utilized in the table's construction.

Just as every sphere need not intersect Flatland, every bar of metal need not intersect our perceptual space.

That decoration sounds like a terrible waste of platinum.....unless the platinum she discards is where the platinum in my platinum statues comes from. However, that leaves some questions about stones. Any given boulder has enough mass for anywhere between 33 and 3333 crafts, and while it's unrealistic to expect that many crafts to be produced from it, the fact that only 1-3 crafts are produced from it suggest a tremendous waste of stone. Unlike with metal, I can never get that stone back when I'm making furniture; what gives?

[Daris]

That decoration sounds like a terrible waste of platinum.....unless the platinum she discards is where the platinum in my platinum statues comes from. However, that leaves some questions about stones. Any given boulder has enough mass for anywhere between 33 and 3333 crafts, and while it's unrealistic to expect that many crafts to be produced from it, the fact that only 1-3 crafts are produced from it suggest a tremendous waste of stone. Unlike with metal, I can never get that stone back when I'm making furniture; what gives?

You're getting it back.  You just can't perceive it.  People in Flatland can't tell when I take their stuff and use it to fold origami.  All they know is that their stuff has vanished.

[contheman]

That decoration sounds like a terrible waste of platinum.....unless the platinum she discards is where the platinum in my platinum statues comes from. However, that leaves some questions about stones. Any given boulder has enough mass for anywhere between 33 and 3333 crafts, and while it's unrealistic to expect that many crafts to be produced from it, the fact that only 1-3 crafts are produced from it suggest a tremendous waste of stone. Unlike with metal, I can never get that stone back when I'm making furniture; what gives?

You're getting it back.  You just can't perceive it.  People in Flatland can't tell when I take their stuff and use it to fold origami.  All they know is that their stuff has vanished.

There is a huge difference between spatial anomalies (origami as you put it) and a change in mass. Space can be distorted in the real world, but matter has to be created from energy or transmuted into energy for there to be change.

[Torrenal]

There is a huge difference between spatial anomalies (origami as you put it) and a change in mass. Space can be distorted in the real world, but matter has to be created from energy or transmuted into energy for there to be change.

There's change in mass, and there's change in weight.
The two can be different things.

What if the mass is pulled into a fifth dimension where gravity cannot reach?  Then you can conserve your mass while diminishing weight.  And if matter naturally exists in this fifth dimension, the surely the dwarves can also extract the extra mass for manufacturing the table.

 

Dwarves have mastered not just quantum entanglement, but extra-dimensional physics.  Heck, they probably solved the whole dark matter puzzle centuries ago, during a party at ☼Schist Table☼.
//Torrenal
edit: I are unfixing bad grammar mine.

[Daris]

There is a huge difference between spatial anomalies (origami as you put it) and a change in mass. Space can be distorted in the real world, but matter has to be created from energy or transmuted into energy for there to be change.

Matter is not being created.  It's being passed to, and retrieved from, higher-level dimensions, and it continues to exist there even after it is incorporated into the table/statue/etc.  In fact, dwarven miners mine out considerable extra-dimensional material as they work, which provides a limited but high quantity of additional material that exists and has mass, and can be built into the furniture, but which you can't perceive.

Why do you think you get only 1 boulder for every 4 tiles of stone a miner mines?  3/4ths of your fortress is undetectable to you until it is built into a table and the table "suddenly" "acquires" mass from "nowhere."

[LordPorkins]

Dude. These are Dwarves. Their primary method of fuel intake is booze and they occasionally can craft solid gold weapons perfectly at 2 days old. They are at the same time Geniuses and Freaks-O-Nature

[Bakaridjan]

Great thread, I have to say of all the feats of dwarven physics the most amazing to me has always been the most basic. I think the answer to must lie somewhere in the exact nature of the dwarven pick, which is the original atom smasher. How do my dwarves mine out massive holes in the ground and never once have to think about where to put the dirt/stone that is removed? Really our fortresses should really all look like gigantic anthills.

The other thing that amazes me is the simple chain. Use it to stake down your pet Roc and appears to be about 1-2 tiles long. Use it for a well and it can easily reach down hundreds of z-levels to get you a cool crisp drink from the pit of hell itself.

[Dirst]

Great thread, I have to say of all the feats of dwarven physics the most amazing to me has always been the most basic. I think the answer to must lie somewhere in the exact nature of the dwarven pick, which is the original atom smasher. How do my dwarves mine out massive holes in the ground and never once have to think about where to put the dirt/stone that is removed? Really our fortresses should really all look like gigantic anthills.

The other thing that amazes me is the simple chain. Use it to stake down your pet Roc and appears to be about 1-2 tiles long. Use it for a well and it can easily reach down hundreds of z-levels to get you a cool crisp drink from the pit of hell itself.

Reminds me of an RPG character I had many moons ago in a superhero game.  He wielded a bit of chain a few feet long like a whip, but this being a superhero universe it extended as needed for Spiderman-style swinging, wrapping up badguys, etc.  (and other stuff not relevant here).  Not sure exactly where that chain came from, but I kept getting blamed for the Escape of Fenrir.

Back on topic, the most amazing thing that dwarves make is the mechanism.  Any two can connect across any distance to let a lever control a device like a bridge or cage.  And they are all the exact. same. size.

[contheman]

a cool crisp drink from the pit of hell itself.

What if this was Aquafina's slogan?

[cochramd]

Guys, guys, none of this solves the dilemma of stone. Every time one of my dwarfs creates something from stone, the product(s) always have less mass than from the boulder from which it(they) came. There is never any event where I take that stone back. Meanwhile, other than artifacts I never use platinum for anything but statues - statues with a greater mass than the bars used to create them. There is only one possible explanation: the fifth dimension only takes mass and gives mass; it cares not for elemental configuration. The mass that my stonecrafters send to fifth dimension when they create only 3 rings from a massive boulder is the very same mass reclaimed by my blacksmiths when they create a platinum statue with only 3 bars. It is clear, though, that there are limits to the dwarven mastery of the fifth dimension. After all, if they could just conjure any metal all willy-nilly, there would be no need to mine for ores and to smelt them. Clearly, some amount of the desired material must always be used in the construction of the item in order to retrieve the extra-dimensional mass. And then there is the matter of melting gains and losses which, apart from a few select items, somehow prevents the dwarfs from using the fifth dimension as a perfect philosopher's stone....