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[Goatmaan]

Ok, I've given this more thought.
you're on a flat (1z)  map right?
Scarce or no metal. (Goblinite/caravan)
Wood?  Caverns I presume.
What size is you're map? (Please don't say 6*6!! Cuz mines way too big for this problem)

BUNKER: sealed from outside, only access from fort. Can be boxes(10*10) or lines( 4*10) with however many fortifications you want, you could use drawbridges to block los if needed. Archers have 20+ tile range right? A couple of theese spaced out properly, maybe with a central barracks.
Kind of peek-a-boo thing. Undead show up at Bunker 1, station 1 archer from squad,lower drawbidge, he shoots, undead come close, Bunker 2 archer stationed, drawbridge opens, Bunker 1 closes up.
But siince you're map is flat, id use ballista, simply for the range. Wooden ones might just get em going. You need range/crossfire.
I've never made ballista, do they take a lot of material?

Last idea.
 Spider holes: many small openings near spawn points, spaced however, ALL leading to the same trap/kill room.
You've got 4 halls not working. Give them ten. Doesn't work!? Give them 20!!
Straight shot in no traps except in central room.
This method would also work for safe bait placement.

Kind of an " All roads (tunnels) lead to Rome (traps/death) "kind of thing!


Wow that took a long time to write out on my phone, I really hope you try 1, and that it works!!
Good luck, keep trying, and don't be afraid to let a few dwarfs die. There's always the next fort

  Goatmaan

[PatrikLundell]

Standard 3*3 size map. Completely flat (well there is of course varying elevations beneath the ocean, but I haven't seen anything except capybaras go for a swim). Goblinite only, except for a small initial mood embark/caravan supply (actually, there is a small tetrahedrite vein in a corner, but I just pretend it's normal rock).
I've got more wood than I thought. Even though I've blocked growth with stockpiles everywhere except 30 or so tiles a few trees mature each season. I've clear-cut 1:st cavern and blocked growth in it, while I haven't gotten more access to 2:nd one than scouting (various critters, plus being busy trying to secure the first one which is a pain to close off), 3:rd cavern completely covered by water, but I'm draining it after significant obsidianization efforts of the entrances. A bunch of trees there as well.

I think xbow dwarf range is the same as sight range, which should be something like 12-15. Ballistae are fairly simple to build from three logs (can be made from metal, but I've never done that). Unless you build a capturing wall/trench arrows are lost on firing (and one log -> one arrow). However, they're great for removing fungal trees in water that can't be removed by other methods (I've even gotten that to work under water when the tree was covered by rock above).
However, I think xbow dwarves make better bait than ballistae, since I suspect the undead will just go "Huh? Nah, is nutin'!" when fired at from beyond their sight range. The shutter boxes is an interesting approach, though (I think I actually use shutters when I tried ballista boxes the last time). You might be able to have creature bait in them (but regardless of type of bait, there's a risk it only attracts ranged enemies).

Spider holes do not work. That's essentially what I've tried, but the morons just step down and up again. All roads leading to Rome won't work if the morons won't take any of them, unfortunately.

The approach I've gone for is an array of 5 10*10 retracting drawbridges along the edge with a sea of cage traps beneath (all attacks have come from that edge so far). A bit of a gotcha in that I can't place traps closer to 5 tiles from the edge even under ground. Now, if my mechanics could just speed up the mechanism production!

I've gotten a regular gobbo first siege force of 10 (seems to be the normal first attack number). They had no trouble finding the fortress, although some started to veer to the north entrance even before the first one had gotten caught in a trap, so there is probably something funny with a path on a floor over the courtyard. Unfortunately, my box design backfired, so the invaders climbed the stairs into the boxes to camp beside the captured ones. However, the militia could handle them without injury, and the positive side effect is that the unsightly bodies were out of the way of the tree hugger caravan due 10 days later (but I think the bodies were out of the way by then anyway). The box entry design has been reworked to use a raising drawbridge, so they can't repeat that trick again, anyway (and the walls are unclimbable with a floor jutting out two levels up and an embryo of a wall beyond that in the corners for when I get time to finish it).

We'll see what happens when the next undead force arrives: since the second one left without losses they should be back. I've also considered upgrading the drop hole construction to drop them down to the aquifer and then add magma, but it's a fair bit of work to pump the magma the additional 100+ levels (from just above the 3:rd cavern) to the surface (but I've got power prepared for it, a fair number of aquifer flow induced water wheels).

Thanks for your help!

[Wheeljack]

A reoccurring theme I've seen with cage traps is that they bork invader pathing. Period. In various, unpredictable ways. If leaders get caught, their underlings just chill with them, for example. I never use them and never seem to have a problem with invaders gunning for my single entrance.

My setup usually involves a single 3x3 stairwell straight down. Around this I build an above ground fortress area. It includes some archer towers, a place for the Trade Depot, a place for training and solider barracks, and my refuse pile along with above ground farming and animal pasture. Around this little fort, I dig a 2 tile wide moat (filled with water usually), and have a single bridge leading into the fort. I always play on 3x3 maps, with a medium sized world. The last siege I had, I closed the bridge and the goblins were crazy enough to attempt a swim. Some of them succeeded and wound up on my walls after climbing them. (It's kind of scarily awesome what a single archer can do on a tile wide path.)

Have you tried a completely trapless, doors wide open approach on a new map? I've seen several people claim invaders 'remember' trap locations and won't path over them, so a fresh start might be required for each new entrance type for proper testing.

Wish I could offer more help, and I hope you figure it out!

[PatrikLundell]

I'm leaning towards different behavior for goblins and undead, where undead have great problems, whereas goblins frequently don't have much of a problem. I'm well aware of the camper problem, and have various ways of dealing with that. By the way, in my single attempt at an evil reanimating glacier embark the reanimated undead behaved the same as the invading ones, i.e. clueless and unable to find any entrance except by randomly passing close enough to an "approved" one while being completely indifferent to others the stumble down into.

I just had my 3:rd undead siege, and they spawned some 5 tiles east from the SW corner (as opposed to the previous one, that spawned precisely in the corner). This group immediately went for my southern entrance. I caught a dozen or so of them in my southernmost retracting drawbridge trap, whereas the rest continued on. They killed the elven spy who'd just threatened me as it was on its way out (I saw no reason to spare any effort trying to contain it). Since I closed off entrances as the invaders started to get caught in my traps I eventually caught everyone (one or two might have gotten atom smashed), with some in each entrance (except the trade one, which is on the other side of the map).

Invaders remembering dangerous paths is on the DF future development page, and I've never seen any indication that there should be something like that in currently. If it was, it's quite bugged, as it should result in the selection of a different path, not no path at all (and certainly not before even making a first attempt). I wouldn't be opposed to invaders conducting a "proper" siege, provided the fortress was provided with means for counter measures (such as trainable siege engines, preferably capable of targeting a different elevation (up only for catapults), although the attackers could be given some offensive siege equipment as well. A taunting, overwhelming force that hugs the edge is what gets to me.

My current conclusion is to stay on ocean edge maps with minimum amount of land, be prepared to endure a couple of undead drifting sieges, and then build offensive defenses where they seem to enter. The fortress entrances should probably be above ground and on undisturbed terrain (not a floor over a dug out area). I'll stay away from moats, since streams have made the buggers fail to path to the fortress in the past, despite drifting 10 tiles from the above ground courtyard, and I'll also stay away from streams for the same reason. I'll consider bunkers as well.