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Author Topic: Finding Sedimentary Layer?  (Read 1745 times)

Arshness

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Finding Sedimentary Layer?
« on: October 08, 2015, 01:06:50 am »

I was wondering where I should find the sedimentary layer?
I have a fortress that is in sand/clay layers for the first two floors, then it hits Gneiss, then a ton of marble and that goes down into a cavern I can't currently get through because there's a huge amount of water down there and I'm not outfitted for opening the cavern yet.

I am currently digging about the map to see if there is any sedimentary layer stuff in other areas of my map...
I really like this embark and I'd hate to abandon it, but if there's no coal I can't make metal stuff... And my mayor has already mandated that I make picks... sucks.

Any help would be appreciated...
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Finding Sedimentary Layer?
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2015, 02:32:37 am »

You can cheat using a DFHack plugin to reveal the map (haven't used it, and so don't know the name).
You can also cheat slightly less by using the DFHack command "prospect all" (if I recall it correctly) to see what's available on your embark. That would tell you if there is any coal available at all (I think it also shows which levels it occupies, but you don't have to look at that...).

Coal on the map is fairly rare in my experience (I think I've found coal two or three times in a year), so just having sedimentary layers does by no means guarantee the presence of coal.

HOWEVER, you don't need coal! You can burn wood into charcoal and use that to fuel your smelters and furnaces. (requires a fair bit of wood hauling, and access to wood, of course). A better option is to use magma powered facilities by locating the magma sea (I usually build a magma workshop area there, but it's also possible to haul magma up using a magma safe mine cart, or a pump stack). The only thing you absolutely need coal for is for reduction of iron into steel (via pig iron). You can also start with a wood driven strategy and then relocate/refurbish to use magma later on.

There is a cheatish way to deal with pesky mayors: You can manually replace them on the nobles screen. I do that as a new mayor is elected (typically the same bugger) to get a dependable dorf with no stupid fetishisms (has to be repeated each year after the election).
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Uggh

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Re: Finding Sedimentary Layer?
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2015, 02:46:31 am »

Just replace the mayor with someone who does not have any item preferences.

Just dig around the caverns. There is always a way around to reach some magma for your forges.

I never had coal in several years of playing DF and never missed it. Trees are just as good. Even if you are in  desert it should be possible to find some in one of the three cavern levels. And even these are not required as you can get cheap wood from caravans. You can even order it from the dwarven caravan.
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Arshness

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Re: Finding Sedimentary Layer?
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2015, 03:04:36 am »

Okay thanks guys.

I used DFHack to check the map and I don't find any sedement. So I'm going to rely on wood (I have a wooded area so no problem there).
There is a magma area on my map not tooo far down actually... but it says "open space Magma 7/7" and it goes down down down down deep. Is that just like a huge hole over a magma bit somewhere down there?

I have never found magma before so I have no idea how to use it. What I have to do to use it even.

I managed to make the picks! The issue was I'd ordered iron picks. I changed it to copper picks since I had galena and tetrahedrite (one of those is copper... I think the latter...) And so now I have picks and the mandate is solved.
She didn't have a weird fetish, just wanted more miners I suppose.

But now I have no iron so I'll have to buy iron stuff from the caravans.
I guess I'll focus on my textiles and food industry for dwarfbucks. :D

So how do I utilize that magma then... That's next!
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Finding Sedimentary Layer?
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2015, 09:13:24 am »

Nobles (monarch/mayor/baron[in its various forms]) issue mandates to produce what's usually junk. These mandates are based on their preferences, so if you manage to find a dwarf that has no preferences for items you'll get a lot fewer mandates. In the case of picks you can just melt those down to reuse the metal for the next mandate (which is probably going to be more picks...). The really annoying mandates are the ones where they order junk like scepters, which you can't produce directly, but have to order "crafts" and just hope you get some scepters, rather than just place the order and forget about it (and order more junk as the mandate wasn't fulfilled).

Open space magma 7/7 means the tile you looked at is completely filled by magma (7 out of 7 depth in the tile, the same as for water), and the open part means there is no floor on the tile.
Magma is used to power magma versions of powered workshops. However, I think those aren't visible in the workshop/furnace menus until you've discovered a magma source. Magma is used by the workshops by building the workshop with at least one tile above an open magma tile (i.e. a hole in the floor with magma directly below). You want to plan the building/digging such that you have a single open magma tile and the workshop is placed with its impassable tile (usually darker in most/all(?) tile sets) directly over the magma tile. That will ensure dorfs can't fall down into the magma, which is usually considered a good thing. Magma workshops get power when the magma depth in the tile below them is 4/7 or more.
I'd recommend not to build workshops directly on top of the magma sea, but rather drain some magma off into a tunnel that is then sealed by a magma safe raising drawbridge (ALL components of the bridge have to be magma safe: stone(s) as well as the mechanism or the bridge will get destroyed over some limited time if not raised).
Locate the magma sea. Find a place where the magma meets rock (i.e. a "shore"). Go up one level and dig a a single tile channel down into the rock and then a tunnel up to, but not through, the wall to the magma sea (You can do this on any magma level, as magma isn't pressurized unless pumped, in contrast to water). Once you've dug your tunnel you build a magma safe drawbridge by the wall to the sea (I actually use 3, one for workshops, one for a magma filling station [for hauling magma via mine carts], and the outermost one for a magma pump stack. Note that I only provide for these. Whether I actually build them is a later question). You should also channel holes in the floor above the tunnel (you'll need to dig this out for your workshop area) so you know where your workshops should be. I then build them as soon as I've made the holes.
Note that access to the magma sea can let hostile critters in (hence the drawbridge(s)), so you don't want any open holes in the workshop. Note that magma is capable of powering a workshop indefinitely, as it doesn't cool off.

I actually embark on metal free embarks and rely on invaders to provide me with metal (except a small supply of junk metal to be used for moods before invaders arrive), but that requires a reasonably careful embark selection to make it probable they'll arrive (and a desire for sieges, of course. Some DF players want to build their mega projects without being disturbed). I also make sure to have sand available on my embark, as that can be used for cage traps and menacing spikes, of which I use copious amounts.
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Daris

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Re: Finding Sedimentary Layer?
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2015, 11:20:36 am »

I quickly became super-lazy about powering my workshops and began embarking on volcanoes.  There is no down side to this.  It makes magma available wherever you want it without having to learn complex engineering.  I dig out a room below where I want my workshops to be, fill it with a pool of magma, and whenever I need a new workshop I just channel out a tile over the pool to power the workshop.  A volcano also makes it simple to construct extremely lethal traps immediately out of the gate.  Give it some thought for your next fort.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Finding Sedimentary Layer?
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2015, 11:51:42 am »

No down side? I assume no fire imps have shown up to set fire on the vegetation then?
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Daris

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Re: Finding Sedimentary Layer?
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2015, 11:58:40 am »

Not since I started flooring over the top of the volcano.
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Arshness

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Re: Finding Sedimentary Layer?
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2015, 07:03:07 pm »

Thanks for the info. I think I get it.

@Daris: I've tried and tried and tried to get a good embark with a volcano.  I never see more than 1 or 2 sites with a volcano on a given world if that. They usually have NO TREES or when I get embarked, I can't find the volcano vent. :/ I've yet to successfully utilize Magma. Since I appear to have found a vent this embark, I guess I'll try to.
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Daris

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Re: Finding Sedimentary Layer?
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2015, 10:04:46 pm »

There is an option in the advanced world generation parameters to increase the number of volcanoes in world creation.  If you pump that up to max, your odds of getting a decent embark with a volcano increase substantially.  If you also increase river sources, you may get multiple embarks with both a river and a volcano within the same 3x3 area.

I initially thought that volcanoes were DF Advanced Mode, but really they are DF With Training Wheels Mode.  I'm too new to the game to be ashamed of taking full advantage of that.
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Arshness

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Re: Finding Sedimentary Layer?
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2015, 11:33:18 am »

Good to know for future fortresses when this one inevitably becomes too much FUN for me to handle.

Well, I'll just feel good then about never having managed to get into the Training Wheels Mode before. I'm playing hardcore apparently with using trees instead of LIQUID FIRE to fuel my workshop.

:)
I started a separate thread to ask about how to get that magma working for me.
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escondida

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Re: Finding Sedimentary Layer?
« Reply #11 on: October 10, 2015, 04:21:22 pm »

Incidentally, you only need to worry about mandates if you assign a sherriff, a captain of the guard (not to be confused with the very useful militia commander), or a hammerer. Without their goon squads and enforcers, nobles have no means to back up their mandates.

Demands are always safe to ignore, even if you choose to allow citizen-killing menaces--er, I mean "friendly neighborhood guardsdwarves"--into your fort.
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