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Author Topic: A few questions about uniforms  (Read 1677 times)

Atrushan

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A few questions about uniforms
« on: September 12, 2015, 09:31:11 pm »

I've got a grand plan for my newest fort. I intend to outfit all of my civilian dwarves in leather and bone, with iron battle axes for everyone, to provide a bit of extra survivability for when they decide to get into fights with camels again. However, I had a couple of questions regarding their uniforms:

1) For the purposes of the military, bone armor counts as metal, right? I know that dwarves are allowed armor based on when they joined the military, so would I have to draft all of the military I ever intend to need right now, before assigning the civilians their gear? Or will a couple of dwarves in each squad serve to earmark the good gear for that squad? I don't want my civvies pilfering all of the good steel armor, after all.

2) How much will this disrupt the smooth running of my fort? As in, will having ALL of my dwarves in the military cause problems, even if most of them are meant to be civilians and I never have them train? Will being outfitted in full bone and leather slow them down overmuch?

3) Is the extra protection of bone armor even worth the hassle, or should I just stick them all in full leather armor and be done with it? The wiki's very clear that any type of metal offers better protection than leather/bone/shell armor, but I didn't see any information about the differences between those three.
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Pirate Santa

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Re: A few questions about uniforms
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2015, 10:21:12 pm »

1) Bone is not a metal. You can assign each squad a uniform or each individual position in the squad separate equipment.

2)Miners/Hunters/Woodcutters will cause clashes with their invisible job uniforms. Leather/bone/shell wont slow them down noticeably.

3)Science needs doing on the difference between shell/bone/leather.

I would also recommend letting them train one or two months a year to give them some skill with their weapons and armor. It will also raise their attributes (strength, speed, endurance) making them better workers as well.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: A few questions about uniforms
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2015, 01:19:16 am »

I'd recommend against Pirate Santa's last recommendation because once militia have trained to some rather low level they will spend almost all time off duty on individual training. It ought to be possible to use a management intensive version of this by assigning barracks for the training period and then deassigning the barracks (possibly by by assigning it to another militia group).
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Insert_Gnome_Here

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Re: A few questions about uniforms
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2015, 03:51:13 am »

If you want to only allow bone armour, set colour to white, as bone is the only white material for armour (unless you buy elven feather wood breastplates or something weird).
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Quote from: Max™ on December 06, 2015, 04:09:21 am
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Skullsploder

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Re: A few questions about uniforms
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2015, 05:24:04 am »

I'd recommend giving them iron or steel helmets if you have the metal. The reason is that a metal helmet weighs too little to cause noticeable slow down but will cause a massive boost to your dwarves' survivability in literally every situation except fluid-related incidents (as in burning in magma or drowning in water). Even in a food or drink crisis it'll prevent tantruming dwarves from braining each other. After many forts where I equip everyone with armour I have to say that the metal helms had a far far greater effect than a full suit of bone leather for everyone, and were far less hassle to produce. If you're really trying to get rid of all the ridiculous amounts of metal that you have, I'd recommend mail shirts. Mail shirts+helms still don't cause any noticeable slowdown in untrained civilian dwarves and the mail shirt will prevent edged damage to the dwarves' torsos, upper legs, upper arms, and necks. Which, coupled with a helm protecting the head (from both blunt and edged damage), means that the only parts of the dwarf which are not covered by metal are their lower legs, lower arms, feet, and hands. To pad up this civilian gear I'd recommend bone gauntlets and greaves and leather high boots, as well as leather dresses or robes, trousers, hoods, and mittens.

Also, Crossbows are a better pick for civilian dwarves, as untrained axedwarves even in large numbers will always (>90% of the time) get ripped apart in close combat by a competent opponent but untrained marksdwarves can, if in large enough numbers (i.e. your whole civilian population), severely incapacitate foes before they get into melee range, without suffering casualties. Plus, crossbows are cheaper to make than battleaxes, and are best when made out of cheap old copper rather than your finest steel (higher weight for use as blunt impact weapon). Don't assign squads more than 250 bolts of ammunition, as max squad size is 10 and max quiver capacity is 25, so assigning more bolts just prevents other squads from using them even though the current squad can't either.

If you have surplus weapons I'd recommend giving dwarves "individual choice, melee" as well, on top of crossbows in the uniform list. This will make them drill with their melee weapon when you send them for combat training and have it equipped in their primary hand with the crossbow as their secondary. They will still fire the crossbow, but this way they'll actually use the melee weapon as well. Using individual choice, melee rather than a specific melee weapon gives a greater likelihood of a good mix of damage types among your civilians, which means they won't all be entirely useless against any foe. Battle axes are good all-rounders (and the most likely to be randomly selected by dwarves due to their high price tag) but are outperformed by the other weapons in certain situations, so it is good to have the mix.

And you can set priority of uniform assignments in the military screen, in the (e)quip screen. This lets you re-order squads for the purposes of uniforms, first assignments->last assignments, but you may still want to create empty squads as placeholders (no need to put any dwarves in them though!). The default uniform priorities are based off the order in which the SQUADS were created. The main reason you may want to create placeholders though is that there's no way to change the order of the squads in the (s)quad menu (where you give kill and move orders), so it's usually nice to have your dedicated military at the top of the list.

Oh and last thing: if you want to put miners, hunters, or woodcutters in a squad for admin purposes, give that squad no uniform, and in the (s)chedule military screen make it so that they don't wear a uniform when off duty. This way there will never be clashes, even when you give them squad orders, and they will still do individual drills with their profession's weapon.

Just my two cents from experience with all military forts. Hope that helps :)
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Snaake

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Re: A few questions about uniforms
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2015, 06:28:03 am »

If you want to only allow bone armour, set colour to white, as bone is the only white material for armour (unless you buy elven feather wood breastplates or something weird).

IIRC you also have to make sure you don't have a material selected. So just "white leg armor", not "white metal (or cloth etc.) leg armor" to have bone greaves in the uniform.
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Insert_Gnome_Here

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Re: A few questions about uniforms
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2015, 07:34:20 am »

Does anyone have the mechanics of being slown down by armour written down anywhere? If not, I'll have to experiment in arena mode.
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Quote from: Max™ on December 06, 2015, 04:09:21 am
Also, if you ever figure out why poets/bards/dancers just randomly start butchering people/getting butchered, please don't fix it, I love never knowing when a dance party will turn into a slaughter.

Finn

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Re: A few questions about uniforms
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2015, 08:58:46 am »

I'd recommend giving them iron or steel helmets if you have the metal. The reason is that a metal helmet weighs too little to cause noticeable slow down but will cause a massive boost to your dwarves' survivability in literally every situation except fluid-related incidents (as in burning in magma or drowning in water). Even in a food or drink crisis it'll prevent tantruming dwarves from braining each other. After many forts where I equip everyone with armour I have to say that the metal helms had a far far greater effect than a full suit of bone leather for everyone, and were far less hassle to produce. If you're really trying to get rid of all the ridiculous amounts of metal that you have, I'd recommend mail shirts. Mail shirts+helms still don't cause any noticeable slowdown in untrained civilian dwarves and the mail shirt will prevent edged damage to the dwarves' torsos, upper legs, upper arms, and necks. Which, coupled with a helm protecting the head (from both blunt and edged damage), means that the only parts of the dwarf which are not covered by metal are their lower legs, lower arms, feet, and hands. To pad up this civilian gear I'd recommend bone gauntlets and greaves and leather high boots, as well as leather dresses or robes, trousers, hoods, and mittens.

Also, Crossbows are a better pick for civilian dwarves, as untrained axedwarves even in large numbers will always (>90% of the time) get ripped apart in close combat by a competent opponent but untrained marksdwarves can, if in large enough numbers (i.e. your whole civilian population), severely incapacitate foes before they get into melee range, without suffering casualties. Plus, crossbows are cheaper to make than battleaxes, and are best when made out of cheap old copper rather than your finest steel (higher weight for use as blunt impact weapon). Don't assign squads more than 250 bolts of ammunition, as max squad size is 10 and max quiver capacity is 25, so assigning more bolts just prevents other squads from using them even though the current squad can't either.

If you have surplus weapons I'd recommend giving dwarves "individual choice, melee" as well, on top of crossbows in the uniform list. This will make them drill with their melee weapon when you send them for combat training and have it equipped in their primary hand with the crossbow as their secondary. They will still fire the crossbow, but this way they'll actually use the melee weapon as well. Using individual choice, melee rather than a specific melee weapon gives a greater likelihood of a good mix of damage types among your civilians, which means they won't all be entirely useless against any foe. Battle axes are good all-rounders (and the most likely to be randomly selected by dwarves due to their high price tag) but are outperformed by the other weapons in certain situations, so it is good to have the mix.

And you can set priority of uniform assignments in the military screen, in the (e)quip screen. This lets you re-order squads for the purposes of uniforms, first assignments->last assignments, but you may still want to create empty squads as placeholders (no need to put any dwarves in them though!). The default uniform priorities are based off the order in which the SQUADS were created. The main reason you may want to create placeholders though is that there's no way to change the order of the squads in the (s)quad menu (where you give kill and move orders), so it's usually nice to have your dedicated military at the top of the list.

Oh and last thing: if you want to put miners, hunters, or woodcutters in a squad for admin purposes, give that squad no uniform, and in the (s)chedule military screen make it so that they don't wear a uniform when off duty. This way there will never be clashes, even when you give them squad orders, and they will still do individual drills with their profession's weapon.

Just my two cents from experience with all military forts. Hope that helps :)

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Atrushan

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Re: A few questions about uniforms
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2015, 09:23:48 am »

Many thanks, guys! I didn't know that you could specify bone armor by setting the color to white, and once I've finished steel production, I'll have the iron helms on the make. Don't have any copper for crossbows, unfortunately, so they'd end up being either wooden or iron. And I'll certainly be careful with the miners, hunters, and woodcutters. Would it be okay to just give them armor and not specify a weapon, or would that still interfere with their jobs?

In a mostly related topic, is there any way of spawning bone/shell armor in the arena? I was going to do a bit of informal testing on it, but it wasn't in the list to spawn.
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Alfrodo

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Re: A few questions about uniforms
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2015, 10:13:55 am »

Many thanks, guys! I didn't know that you could specify bone armor by setting the color to white, and once I've finished steel production, I'll have the iron helms on the make. Don't have any copper for crossbows, unfortunately, so they'd end up being either wooden or iron. And I'll certainly be careful with the miners, hunters, and woodcutters. Would it be okay to just give them armor and not specify a weapon, or would that still interfere with their jobs?

In a mostly related topic, is there any way of spawning bone/shell armor in the arena? I was going to do a bit of informal testing on it, but it wasn't in the list to spawn.

Basically, you have mod in Woodium, Shellium and Bonium. Materials with the exact same properties as them but metalic in nature.
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Zammer990

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Re: A few questions about uniforms
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2015, 10:23:38 am »

Giving people leather/bone/shell armour will not drastically increase survivability against much except small creatures with sharp attacks; a bear is going to maul through your armour like it wasn't there, and bite+shake is currently pretty broken. A bad weapon does a lot more for a dwarf than bad armour, as any goblin with a copper dagger can pierce easily.
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