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Author Topic: Marksdwarves ignoring targets they can't path to?  (Read 980 times)

MobRules

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Marksdwarves ignoring targets they can't path to?
« on: August 12, 2015, 07:19:56 am »

Has anyone else had an issue with marksdwarves ignoring enemies on the other side of a fortification, in plain view, unless there's a way to path to said targets? It seems as though the dwarves think that if they can't walk to a target, they can't shoot it, either.
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Robsoie

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Re: Marksdwarves ignoring targets they can't path to?
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2015, 09:22:42 am »

Are you 100% sure your marksdwarves have some ammo ?
In past versions, i had the same problem and noticed that despite i had several thousands of bolts in my ammo stockpiles, my marksdwarves were never going to refill their empty quiver, and that was why they weren't shooting anymore.

The reason was found and it was that all my bolts in stockpiles were in bins for convenience and taking less place, and there's a long time (and still present) nasty bug that has the dwarves unable to take ammo from inside of bins :
http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=2706

So in case you're hit by the same bug, the only way around it is to disable bins from any ammo stockpile.
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MobRules

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Re: Marksdwarves ignoring targets they can't path to?
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2015, 10:14:27 am »

Are you 100% sure your marksdwarves have some ammo ?
In past versions, i had the same problem and noticed that despite i had several thousands of bolts in my ammo stockpiles, my marksdwarves were never going to refill their empty quiver, and that was why they weren't shooting anymore.

The reason was found and it was that all my bolts in stockpiles were in bins for convenience and taking less place, and there's a long time (and still present) nasty bug that has the dwarves unable to take ammo from inside of bins :
http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=2706

So in case you're hit by the same bug, the only way around it is to disable bins from any ammo stockpile.

Yup, I verified that they had ammo (and you're right -- I never allow bins in my ammo stockpiles, for the reasons you state). Also, as soon as  I gave them a way to path to the enemy, THEN they started firing through the fortifications at them.
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Bouchart

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Re: Marksdwarves ignoring targets they can't path to?
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2015, 10:16:19 am »

Do you have those marksdwarves stationed by the fortifications, or are they near the fortifications with an attack order on the enemies?  Pathing can be a bit weird if you use an attack order.  It's generally better to station them near the enemy when possible.
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MobRules

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Re: Marksdwarves ignoring targets they can't path to?
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2015, 10:20:26 am »

Do you have those marksdwarves stationed by the fortifications, or are they near the fortifications with an attack order on the enemies?  Pathing can be a bit weird if you use an attack order.  It's generally better to station them near the enemy when possible.
Stationed -- I had already encountered (in a previous fort) the issue where marksdwarves can't path within range of an enemy they can't path all the way to.
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Robsoie

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Re: Marksdwarves ignoring targets they can't path to?
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2015, 10:32:45 am »

I looked on the wiki, and there's "yet another DF bug" since years regarding the fortifications that may be very well what's happening :
Quote
Line of sight through fortifications can be wonky. Specifically, marksdwarves often fail to register that there are enemies on the other side unless they (the dwarves) are directly next to the fortification. ( Bug:2697 ) Having a single-tile hall behind can help. Statues can be used as "soft" impassable tiles for this purpose: dwarves can dodge into one, but won't try to walk into such tile normally.
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Robsoie

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Re: Marksdwarves ignoring targets they can't path to?
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2015, 10:34:44 am »

And be cautious when doing that single tile wide hall, there's "yet another DF bug" new to df2014 :
The AI can (and so will) "jump" -through- the fortification (yeah, those guys must be really thin) for whatever reason (because they're stupid or because they're doding)

edit : oops used reply instead of edit previous post
« Last Edit: August 12, 2015, 10:37:08 am by Robsoie »
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MobRules

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Re: Marksdwarves ignoring targets they can't path to?
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2015, 10:40:48 am »

This is probably it, it's consistent with what I'm seeing.

Any civillian that happened by could certainly see the enemy through the fortifications though! They kept coming through trying to collect stuff, then running off in a panic.

EDIT: so the ability to path was a bit of a red herring. Being able to path to them caused the marksdwarves to run closer (since why fire a bolt at something, when you could just bash it with your crossbow?) and started shooting when they got right up against the fortification.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2015, 10:42:54 am by MobRules »
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AceSV

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Re: Marksdwarves ignoring targets they can't path to?
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2015, 10:21:22 pm »

I have that problem too.  I also sometimes have problems where a creature is "out of reach" in the caverns and they cannot be ordered to kill it, but they can be stationed near it and get the job done just fine.  They also jump through fortifications while sparring and drown in the mote. 
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BoogieMan

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Re: Marksdwarves ignoring targets they can't path to?
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2015, 10:47:07 pm »

I seem to remember reading somewhere that it takes a high ranged combat skill to shoot through fortifications without being immediately next to them.  While skilled marksdwarves could shoot through from a distance, newbies would have to be point blank with the fortifications to shoot through them.

Any chance that is playing a role here?
« Last Edit: August 13, 2015, 10:49:23 pm by BoogieMan »
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MobRules

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Re: Marksdwarves ignoring targets they can't path to?
« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2015, 09:23:21 am »

I seem to remember reading somewhere that it takes a high ranged combat skill to shoot through fortifications without being immediately next to them.  While skilled marksdwarves could shoot through from a distance, newbies would have to be point blank with the fortifications to shoot through them.

Any chance that is playing a role here?

Almost certainly. Which would explain why I don't recall having this problem on my previous fort (where the marksdwarves were highly skilled)
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Ninja dragons! Protect the masterwork roasts!
Is this biome reanimating? I really don't want to know what happens when "absurd numbers of megabeasts" is combined with "reanimating biomes".